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Mouth-Off
Mouth-Off

Episode 11 · 1 year ago

Mouth-Off Episode 9, part 1: Mostly David Ephgrave, partly Paul McCartney

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this month's episode of Mouth-Off, I interviewed comedian, musician, songwriter, actor, promotor, producer, author, and blogger David Ephgrave (and the "back end" of comedy duo Dogget and Ephgrave). We had a long chat about his career as an actor/musician and the subsequent career change to comedy 15 years ago. 

In part 1 of Mouth-Off Episode 9: Mostly David Ephgrave, partly Paul McCartney we discussed David's career to date and his insecurities about what he describes as the "imposter syndrome". We also had an open and frank discussion about the mental illness that has affected David for most of his life and the impact that this has had on his career. 

Tune in next month for part 2, when we discuss David's heroes and biggest influences - his dad, Buddy Holly and Paul McCartney.

NB - some of the extracts contain explicit language.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

Theme music: Intro and Outro by Clary Saddler

Featuring:

Snippet from David Ephgrave: My Part in his Downfall - written and performed by David Ephgrave (recorded at the Market Theatre, taken from YouTube)

Snippet from 'If I was going to do it, I wouldn't do it Like this' - written and performed by Dogget and Ephgrave (recorded at Mostly Comedy club, taken from YouTube)

Snippet from 'The Balloon Debate' - written and performed by Dogget and Ephgrave (recorded at Edinburgh Fringe, taken from YouTube)

Mostly Comedy theme tune - music written by the Osmonds, interpolated and performed by Dogget and Ephgrave (recorded at Mostly Comedy club, taken from YouTube)

Snippet from the 2015 solo stand-up show '...and Ephgrave' - written and performed by David Ephgrave (taken from YouTube)

Simplicity - written by David Ephgrave and performed by Big Day Out (taken from SoundCloud)

Smiling on - written David Ephgrave and performed by Big Day Out (taken from SoundCloud)

Ukulele Girl - written by David Ephgrave and Chris Hollis and performed by Dogget and Ephgrave (taken from YouTube)

Falling Down - written and performed by David Ephgrave (recorded at the Market Theatre, taken from YouTube)

Hang on - written and performed by David Ephgrave (recorded at Hitchin Football Club, taken from SoundCloud)

My thought is a podcast wrote to you byforget me not productions. My name is carry Sadler a former actor musicianteacher. Turning through a arts practitioner each podcast you here in carryinginterviews by about or four marginalized groups, a writer, a musician and so white ahead,an from paitre. He also destricte back end of the comedy: Do don't get anNeswa dog and Efrata friends a eneesher and Ed Refresh Been Comin with youvariety of things, O we we do we're actors we run this comedy came. Wouldyou show were very used to multi tasking to a result? We have a bitfrustrated. We see other people tison things kind of correctly. That sort ofthing is not like, as we thought we do now, as we saw you refuse this. Wediscover, or the last few months asily tell people off doing things correctlyas Yon. We call this section, and I quote: If I was going to do it, Iwouldn't do it like this, for example, if I wanted to tell you that all gameswere prohibited in the square, I wouldn't like that statement on a signthat was square. No, I confuses me. So is I want to bounce my oh? I could doit there. I could do you could do is in the square iced at left a run mostlycomedy a successful comedy club based indication. The Club is expanded intwelve years. I've blowing five venders across hitchen before reaching itscurrent home with Itchington Hall in two thousand and nineteen o a e a so so pedite in the past include Harry Hill,Phil Jupiters, your we go, vetinary Ryan Jack De Paul Daniels, Kate, Robins,Bombyane, Norman love, it Melis. Many more doketer also hurts the GIN, mostlycomedy podcast, in which they to many of the acts. The play that Cot as acomedy do when they did eleven seasons with the comedy project, the ServoTheater and have taken various stand up shows to various spring festals rothe.UK David Solo, after musician credits include plain Balmer and the number onetour of the royal vison story and playing Buddy Harley in the UK islandtor of Bedy Horleans. Your ladies O, an okay Richard in the west endproduction of green boat, petticoats and there's a comedian then took hisfirst solo, show and death wave to the two thousand and fifteen whiten can anfringe festivals. His second show mostly Avid Afra to enbright in Londonunless the fringe festivals in two thousand, and sixteen is third nowwho's a comedian to the end of the fringe, vestlet thesand seventeen andis forth David as FRA. My Parson is down form to the end of a fringefestival in two thousand and eighteen is also kept the daily log for fiveyears: Wife E Shinshu Amblin. There is reason my mind: that's still cuttingedge a word most recently David. His feature,the man than we telegraphed t twenty funniest one line is the two thousandand seventeen ead on the fridge and comic senters. Thirty funnies jokes ofthe year, plus I use pains fifty best jokes, the sponsons forty Beth does,and the Edbury, even at news, is forty funniest one liners of two thousand andEighteen Edinburgh fringe lists. My Dad told me recently that he found asuspicious love. Okay, the strange to say on it turns out. It was just a hellat so it's nothing to worry about what we osortasen store of our house inWanton Rodin stanage, a house he moved out of in one thousand nine hundred andninety three a...

...something a this for thirty years. This was atation. It was there before the Benares ofNelson a de this is it o us and fine in insters, they're being in this countryyounger than I got to have to vote David. Welcome to the show and pointsare coming on. So the question we usually start well ask everybody thatcomes on is how would you describe yourself as per professionally what youdo in a nutshell? I don't it's one of the hardest things. I don't know if youfeel like this, but is the impostor syndrome thing and also mind like yours,a bit of a list, so you know I'm an actor and I'm a musician and I'm acomedian, but you think if anyone ever asked youwhat you do you say one and that's not very believable and you add another onethey're like what and they just so yeah. I still don't really know how to definemyself a performer, but even that sounds about er, the top. I don't know,but yeah actor, musician, comedian, writer, poor man, very poor man, nomoney. What's IT Yeah? Definitely I get asked that and I sort of tend to say Iguess what I do. MORSOM now is with a company, so I will say, inclusive artspractitioner, and then you met with a blank gaze of what's that then. Butthat sounds more like a thing. That's quite you know, that's better! THAT'S AWHOA! Okay! I couldn't compete with that, whereas I'm like I just soundlike I'm doing things that people do for you know my making it up just feellike a liar. You'd. Think this many years in, like nearly twenty years into being like professional, I wouldn't feel like a lie, but I still do I don'tknow what t well I've been trying to it. Well, I have to try and I and I don't know what I'm don't. Let meI well you be playing a we even saying thave you been trying, so I actually met at Harar a theaterschool. Oh H, s many moons ago, now we're very old and very old. I don'tknow how that happened. I know exactly it just feels like I think about it. Ican picture myself in that flat on Bancroft road. You know listening tothe kinks or something like that doesn't feel like twenty years ago,plus O l, but don't you find, I think like when we were kids when we werevery small like its growing up in the S and s you'd like things like the s ands and the fourth you seem like a lifetime ago. You know is in as a goodpart, O the Black and white. Are you look in go a twenty years ago, but nowwe're at the point we like twenty years ago was like when I was jest played Nebwith an in all this. I now that you know that's almost almost at the pointof new music for me in my mind, like current yeah, I mean most twenty yearsago, so yes, the sort of thing my dad would have called rap crap. You know,even though it was a band like Romanic street preachers, that you know far the thing away from rap that youcould imagine you here. Chronic ran a sneeze jeff comes on does a bit. I knowwhat you mean. I sort of you know I think about my mom talks about growingup in the S and kind of music you like listening to and when I was a kid thatfelt ancient, whereas I just bought the twenty fifthanniversary. I think it wasof...

...no twentieth anniversary of the ManicStreet preachers album. This is my truth to me, yours, twenty years,really. How did that happen? What's like the Beatles Sergeant Pepper Twentyyears ago to day, and you go, how can that bit yeah? It's just crazy. I don'treally understand it also because I think maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we will grow upat the same time, but we all kind of look the same at this point. So yousort go, no, no we're not old yet and then I'm sure it's to Co. Pretty soonyou yeah you, you get that thing. Where you see people, he went to primaryschool with and you recognize them. You haven't seen them. You know sin ethousand, nine undred and eighty nine you recognize them. They look the same.Their faces are the same yea, yea gray. You know gray, hair or balding andthey're in their forties. How does that happen? I really remember very clearlyan east enders and it was what's his name. I forgot sake: Frank Butchers, son Rick Yeah. I remember there was a storyline where he was eighteen and me like the younger, a Goy he's old. He no likeyeah. I E I don want to work out over twice older, then so John Anon died.When he's forty, I need to speed up and sot my life out really because I wantto get shot next year. THAT'S THE PLAN YEHA! That's that that's the thing youneed to you know do something: What did he do? That was controversial, so youbetter than Jesus or something like that. You know yeah yeah, I might getin the local pope the commits yeah actly for a for a God. So thinking backto half as thet to school. I was struck me as a little bit odd because we studiedacting and musical theater a genre that I think we both quite passionatelydisliked. That's Righi can still occasionally I put radio to on on aSunday and a lane pages on and that cringe feeling just comes over me. Youknow she her voice. Just speaking speaking about she smokes about a day.It's just the annoy the annoying giggle in yeah.It's a funny thing. It's like because my comedy partner, Glen Dogget, he'svery into musical theater and I've tried over the years to steer himtowards real music. But I still, I think we fosti you feellike the minority, because we were there in a musical theater course, andyet we were into like what we see is real music yeah, yeah glens world. Youknow: He'll, listen to musicals, more than he'll, listen to wide life, saysnormal stuff. So yeah you just you want to go this isn't! This is what everypeople are more into popular cultures they on to us because they go tomusical S. okay, because it's the thing everyone goes to see in the theater ofLondon, but you listening to musicals. I just don't get that you know. Yeahmay be like the old ones like the Gershinson S, a beautiful. You knowthat sort of thing, but Stephen Sometime, yes as well, but you willnever get me in the audience but wicked I just can't know O. NO, please! No! No,but I know I know someone who was in it and I'm sure it's a very good show, andI can appreciate when you're doing I do in doing musical theater, he says, says,sort of, but listening to it yeah, it's not. I can't see it. I wouldever put on a musical theater CD unless it was like the carrol king musical,but I would sooner put on the tapestry, album and listen to actual camel king.Exactly I is my question: is you know thinkingback to then? How did that come about for you? You know that college thatcourse that time was sort of variety o things really I mean at that time. Theband that I was in was the moting bad, but I don't feel like I'm to be around her. Well an me. There are times when I e you consciousfound myself that well, I can love, but I can to well can mean well you make a bad when i.

That is why I on mine, every night you came away. That is why I on it, I've always been interested in acting.I always been interested in all those sort of things, but yeah the band wasthe thing that I was going to do. Music was the thing that was going to do, andI very nearly took a year out to sort of contract on the band, and Iauditioned, because I because I was from around the same area Harpie asHaris cool ad audition Ers, a sort of back up really. You know in case sogood a way. Er decided to do. I say not to do the bad thing, whatever I didn'treally audition much wider and then, as these things often seem to be, I thinkit was in the bath, and I thought I was just in is this a good is is a goodidea, so I was going to be a junior manager of Argos which wasn't really me. You know I thought doI do that or do I I got into this drama school is close to where I live. Icould carry on the band. I could train because I did still want to act. So I'mnot just you know not seeking out our gos to be the thing so yeah. I chose todo that and I mean over time to cut a long story short after the dram schoolfinished. I got a job and that was sort of an acting job, an that was the endof the band. I don't regret going there for lots of reasons, as I think it was.I mean it was a small school. There are some things that were really good aboutit. There were some things that weren't so good about it, and there wascertainly that sense of. I guess, because, like you, I wasn't intomusical theater. I was doing that day by day and that's fine, but it didn'treally sit comfortable with me, and I remember very key thing, one of thethings that the sort of latter day principle- because he were twoprincipal you know said about me- was because I play guitar at you. I wasalways using that the school was well. You know the thing the thing aboutDavid is, you know it would be what he should have done. PUT THE GUITAR DOWNYE learn to be musical theater for that'll, be the thing and playing theguitar and being a musician was the thing that got me all. The work that Igot after actually got me in a west end show in a verse, commers musical, butnot really, and that was because that was a skill that I had. Why would youwhy would you mask the natural skills that you have you know you've got touse what you've gotten as a thing, because I was listening to your episodewith Amory Louis Thomas and she was saying the same thing about you knowmaking a brand. You know I know that's a very sort of now comment of it, butit's true. Why would you disguise the talent I say talent, but the thing youhave that your skill, you know and if he got me to put the guitar down of theMusical Theater, I would never have done it. I didn't want to do it andalso, I would never have been as good as people who genuinely were good atthat and interest in that, whereas you o, the guitar, is the thing. So thatwas why I was there and it was good for acting. It was good. I met Lin there aswell my writing partner. I met you, I don't know why I did a musical theatercourse. I don't know why I've got an actin musical theater to blome. I don't.I don't really know that's transferable as anything, but I you know I enjoyedit at the time I didn't enjoy doing dance classes every day. Pressu arch inevery week is so. I can't believe we did that and you and I were both kind of trying to avoid that for threeyears: clebs. Yes, it back ye getting told off or not having tap shoes. Yes,for no, I e the only being. I really wanted to learn staars that as one ofthe few things I was genuinely interested in, but our teacher, the onethat we had an argument about a bar of seven. Do you remember that she said aborrow? Seven was one two, three four five six Sev o yeah, I so yeah. So soon as I realizedthat I thought I'm not going to bother with the tap shoes, I just sort o yeah just stand here for a year, basicallyin trains. I don't. If I answered your question yeah. No definitely, and Ithink the thing for me is at the time I was probably a better actor. I lovedsinging. I you know I wrote songs and played the guitar. I was a better actorthan I was singer at the time. Probably still now I don't know- and there wasjust nothing else- you couldn't really do an acting course. That also enabledyou to write. You Know Rock Opot, music. Such a thing didn't exist and it may belipper, but I didn't have the money to try and get there. So it was almostlike the next best option. You kind of learned to sing and luckily doing it,we got to meet Amory Lois Thomas who you know, did definitely teach me tosing and to find my voice. I was sort of singing in some strange head voice,even the low songs. I was you know. So for that and glad I don't regret thedecision exactly and the weird thing is now like with the sort of thing we dobecause we're both musicians and we act- you know now there are courses. Now youCann, do actor Muso courses, all those...

...things that weren't really there, evenwhen we were at college, but then at the same time I don't know about that.I just I remember in a conversation with an other guy, is an actor and amusician, and he said what it kind of teaches you to be a not really goodversion of either thing. You know in trying to teach it as specifically askill, your sort of go or we'll learn to play the guitar a bit or whateverlearn to act a bit, and I think it's well. I mean particularly for mebecause a lot of the shows I did like that, the sort of rock and roll basethings he were things I would had an interest in that was stuff. I alreadyknew that was part of me. You know, but yeah I don't know it's. I don't notsure, I'm not sure about that as a cause, but then I don't know if you, ifyou want to do that thing, you don't have the experience. That probably isthe best thing, but it wasn't there when we were when we so it seems like comedy, is your mainfocus now, certainly before the pandemic yeah, and I no, I think I still think of you primarilyas a musician. I don't know if that's more, to do with how I see myself, eventhough you know my days of pigging, a guitar or sitting at the at thekeyboard and singing are quite few and far between, but that's how I think ofmyself. You know at the core. How do you view yourself? Would you say it'smore musician actor comedian, or is there a level of cross over with allthree for you on called quick time and it's a new e by the way? Thank for muchfor seeing me I'm playing tomorrow night at the market theater in hitchingthe only theater of its kind in Hitchin. Yes, O Son Street, if you like the setcoming on and see it, if you didn't like the set, go to the fair, it'sgreat, that's something I mainoito somethingcoersive today! Well, I'm feeling looking for another day, I wishing Caeso was away. Tell me- and you said you do it. We think that you know me, I you astone. You said that my friend, we all think that you much better we've notbeen together each time on any doatings are looking in on since watching tres is the Yand I've Tana you can not have that. I must trust to sing thing. Yousay I don't want a Shitheel is a cross over,and one thing I quite like is that the way my sort of life has gone there bepockets of people that I work with and of my friends, and some of them willdefinitely see me as a musician, because that's what they know me forand some would see me as a comedian or whatever, wouldn't know that I reallyplayed and all the acting thing. So I quite like that, because I'm someonewho gets bored quite easily likes to dodifferent things always like to keep trying different things. So that's yeah,that's quite handy, but I again it is in an imposterum thing I used to andlike when we met. I was definitely I was a musician. I was a song writer.That was my thing that was, I was interested acting. I was interested incomedy all those things, but it was sort of a place holder. While I did thething that I really did and then when I left drama school- and I I got this-the first job I got was an actor music job and it was this is when the used tohad PCR, you ember, that I like photocopy sheet with like with jobs init you the idea even have that now is ridiculous because they all be gone bythe time you get it, but it had a yeah. It was an apern. It said excellentlyguitarist needed for this show and on an excellent base players what it was,and I looked at it. I felt well, no, I'm not, but I'll sad I'll, write thema letter and I wrote them the letter and I got the audition. In fact, thefirst edition I did was, for the Bugese end up doing a play body. Oiquite awhile. I think this is my second...

...audition and while I was doing it andplaying the base and stuff the guy key Strakin is the MD said see you playedguitar and stuff as well o you, but you know, do you think we were a guitar, anwe an? I can. I showed him a bit of that and then it ended up. The LeGuitarist dropped out last minute. So that was the job I got. And again Iknow, although I been in a band for years, is different. Isn't when as yourown stuff, because you don't really you don't think and now I'm leave guitaristyou're just playing the bit that you play. Then you know so the idea ofgoing into a situation where I was at the guitarist was a bit ridiculous. Butthat's I tell that's one good thing: that's coming out of the ACTON Musostuff. I've done is, if you do a job and that job says you're the pianist oryou're the guitarist for that period of time. You really work on that thing andyou are that thing for a while. So that's probably helped me get to be bea better musician, but probably worse, some. I er becausethat's the thing I got so I mean the first day of the houses for that theyplugged like a score in front of us. Sixty songs in the show was opening thefollowing Monday, so we just going to go through these now, just going to dothem and it's like okay, so we're straight in here and again it was late.I mean, thankfully, there's a lot of buddy holly stuff as a lot of stuff. Iknew one of the other band members was having a harder time. The other thannew cast member is terrible, but that actually help me hide a bit, and youknow it's like he's worse for me at this point. You know so that helped but yeah, but then what happened was. I dida lot of that sort of work and suddenly I was playing other people's songs. Iwasn't playing my own anymore and that, combined with the point that I sort ofmissed, was taking that job and taking the next job that I got meant. I wasn'taround for the band of the band. That was always my thing that I was going todo that or nothing else. You know they couldn't wait for me any more. You gowell. I've gone to drama school. I've got a job, I suppose I should take itand then the next job is playing Balmacara who's. My Heroes, you go, doit do I? How can I? How can I turn that one down but yeah they led to a periodof about six or seven, maybe eight years of really not being happy,because I was doing all these work, these jobs, but I wasn't writinganymore. I wasn't the musician at heart that I used to be. I lost confidencebecause I think when you're in a band you can hide. I most I wrote most ofthe songs, but I could hide within the image of the band, so I could say quitepersonal stuff now, but noticed suddenly it was on my own, so yeah Ispent a period of time going by home. You know what I am anymore. I regretgiving up the band and then the comedy things sort of happened by accident,and that was like my second wind. I suppose I thought well now. I can dothis because it's very similar I mean there's, there's a definite linkbetween musicians, Comedians, the sort of nature of rhythm in a joke. Thenature of the sort of people who are comedians is sort of followed, andsuddenly I had this sort of second horror. I thought okay yea. No, I cando this now, I'm more a comedian, but in as more comedy promoter, because Irun a club and you get stuck in that and not really a songwriter. But thereis a part of me that goes. I should have stopped with that. You know thatwas. I understand now that to sort of make animpact in something whatever it is, you have to have something sort of a bitspecial or a little bit in a special bit more individual, and I think the methat was in a band that was writing. Songs was definitely an individual with,if is like, concealed by this band thing, and we would do you know I meanyou were our time, but we would we were sort of heading somewhere. It washappening. You know we got weirdly. We were like supporting bands that welisten to when we're going up as boy Kolesha Ker and the supernaturals, andthere was a sense of it happening and through the supernaturals we got likethat was their their label, which is blurs labe were going to come and seeus and then that Gig didn't happen as I bout this other job and so yeah for along time. I E God, I'm the reason for my own sort of giving this up. You knowthis, it's all my own fault and then, as I say, the comedy thing it's the same sort of thing because I'min a double act there was something special about a double out that went.Okay, we're a thing that no one else is. This could lead to something, but wellthat's a long story but as an individual comedian. I am a comedianthat is my drive, but part of me goes. You know the individual, the moreinteresting individuals, probably that songwriter twenty years ago, God. Whydidn't I do that? I mean you could say well do it now but, as you know not soeasy, when you've dropped it for that much time yeah, I know I mean you knowI picked up picked up the guitar. Actually, not the guitar sat at thePiano Tonight and just I mean I've started something, and you know I kindof got excited for the first time, but it was more. I had to actually sayto my wife earlier today, because she's taking taking our kids out, I'mactually going to sit in the office after I interview David, I'm going todo some song. Writing. Okay, you know almost like don't disrupt me. This iswhat I'm going to do. If I hadn't a sat down and tried to do it, but I don'tthink the inspiration came easily. I mean I actually looked at the books onmy book shelf for a title, that kind of inspired something in me and tried towrite around that which is not an...

...approach I would have ever taken beforeso yeah. It is how, when we were younger when we were younger whateverwe felt at the time, it was kind of easier. I don't know if that's it's,not even the arrogant of you, because neither you or I were arrogant and wewere a little pocket in the drama school that was into real music and wewere both Sun Writers and we sort of spore each other on. I think, but yeahI don't know, can easy. I don't know if it like. I say, because I had a bandhad a reason to write stuff. Then I started doing all these shows whereyou're playing the songs of you know really fantastic song, lices and stuffI started to ever analyze. I started to go well, that's just that's a simple, ad to You know, so I was over thinking it and the minute I over thought it. Ijust couldn't really do it anymore, and I know it's partly because just thespace I was in at the time I think but yeah I think same as you may be now. IfI had to write something for something sometimes for comedy, I write a littlesort of sting or something to be in a show. I can do that quite easily. Youknow, but that's that's a bit like this or press. Like writing. Some foradverts thing. You I mean it's not it's not the part of me that was inspired byI like you. I think I wrote from the heart. Definitely I mean I e E. I wrotea song about a year ago for a sort of schools project using using creativityand music, which is the core of what I do in my company now really using musicas a motivator. I guess for learning about things that you might not want toall might struggle to them that, like maths and I wrote a song calledfantastic fractions and I mean it's like this little cheesy, you know likesay it crass, but you know in that context. It's quiteeasy because that's a character, I'm writing as a character about somethingdeft, and I can do that and I've written four shows that I've been in,and you know quite liked the outcome, butfor that particular show, I wouldn't say that they necessarily good songs.You know but writing for myself. You know I look for Old Song Books, things,I've forgotten even how to play, and I occasionally find us of going wow,that's good. You know I was nineteen. Really I sound almost intelligent andwow that that's quite deep. You know, and you think yes, where did that? Go?Maybe it's still in there and, like you said it's a confidence thing, maybe Ithink so and yeah, because we were doing that thing. We do. We werefollowing a sort of. I don't know a bit of a dream really and at this stage Imean both you and I, you know we're working in a field. That is the thingthat we started out, as the thing we loved you know is linked to music isthink to performance and those sort of things, but that the good thing aboutthat three years, a drama school, was the sort of time around it. To I don'tknow this is sounds very wanky but being sort of an artistic soul. Youknow what I mean just be like I'm doing this thing, I'm slightly torturedstudent, I'm writing songs, and you know we've got this sort of this formatthat set up, but going to this course doing these classes. I hate that theyhate this sing al. We do doing the musical thither whatever, but it givesyou some. I don't know just give you a bit more drive. Doesn't it and a bitmore confidence in yeah? I think overthinking is thethe most dangerous, but the most of the thing that will stop you doingwhat you should do. I really think there's a thing to be said for just doing it. Youknow just getting on with it and doing it and not being too much of a hardcritic of yourself, but that's a easy Sen. Yeah. Definitely- and you know, Idon't want to sound like some cynical forty year old- I mean I am don't giveme wrong. I just don't want to sound forty and I'm very citic, but I youknow I am living the dream. I've got my own business as you say it's what weset out to do so you kind of you still in that field. So many people drop out.You know, and you know I've got a family. I mean I'm living the perfectsort of idealic family life. I don't want to sound like I'm, not happy formy lot. I think when you're younger andcertainly you know at that grammar school, it would tend to be you and Ithat would stay there until seven, eight nine o'clock at night. Sometimeswe went practicing dance routines and singing muser theater songs. She anerlyit was sat at the piano or you know in the music room playing the guitar. Allwriting. You know, and I think you will allow yourself the time and space to dothat, particularly when you are training, because you know that's whatyou're there to do to learn and to develop and you almost feel guilty.When you have responsibilities and a life that you know requires you to do aband c. They just don't have the time to dedicate to it and I think that'shalf the problem yeah. Definitely, and if, if you had the time, if you woulddo you, if you had the freedom to do that, I'm sure I'm sure both of UScould a get back into that mindset. But...

...yeah that's the reality, but we managed,I guess, to sort of draw be somewhere between the reality, while also doingthe thing that was the dream. So yeah I it's close enough. You know it nevergoes away. So going back to you know the comedy club, he saidyou're a comedy because promoter, obviously you and Glen Dog, an EF grave.While you were doing live gigs would do a routine. You mentioned. Sometimes itinvolved, maybe a musical sort of jingle or a comedy sketch that you done.I know you did a song call you can lately go h is great that that youperform. Sometimes, I think I imagine the temptation of being amusically inclined. Comedian is possibly to make that the act. You knowinvoking your inner tim mention or she probably for you, O l, be more likelyto be Victoria. Would, but you know, did you purposely shy awayfrom that? Did you not want to be a musical comedy act, or is that just howit pans out so delicate? His Song to my ex girlfriend de has mike were actuallybecause she's dead and as came ontinyent from us, am I a are you a Uhetea do to a by us a a a a a e, a round, a D s. She said I you, as I'm quite hard on music theater exmusic theater. Not that again a what am I saying musical comedians. I thinkthere are a lot of people who aren't really so songwriters against the thingwe say about act to music courses who say they're a musical comedian and because they can play a few calls oncalade or something. Whereas there are some I mean you mentioned Victoriawould as a guy J forman. I don't if you're familiar with him, but he's he'sa brilliant songwriter, really good songs, but really funny and reallyclever. So and others don't really do that. I don't know yeah. I think I didprobably show away from it. I think it's something. No! It's like sometimespeople to say to you. You know why? Don't you use the music more? That'swhat you do or why don't you do whatever it is, but that never inspiredme. I don't know it never inspired me. Whereas the stand up thing, I mean itkind of happened by accident. Basically, because green and I took a show toEdinburgh in two thousand and eight called the balloon debate. You yea that's right Garry. Tell mehonestly, yeah was it me yeah, I e a a a a a going to die. Not nesert about that one got of that,but alright, five yeah, but it bas a bit first, I know, is down in the last, but he'sreally starting to turn things around a he lives in this car. We's got caigeebeen writing together for a little while and after that, we've got what wewere there. Chris Hollis, who remembers the drummer in my band, came up toreplace one of the cars names in the show for the last week, and we wereliterally crossing a road when we were talking about. We should do some sortof you know regular event, because we went her game base in it. Tune as anexcuse to write. Comedy may be, like...

...poetry, that sort of thing just to seta thing up so literally crossing that road I can picture the road now waswhen sort of the idea of what became mostlycomedy was to the Comedy Club I run was formed and so yeah. It was greatbecause suddenly we had this monthly dead lives in a room of over pubmonthly deadlines to write material and yet in. I guess because Glen isn't amusician, it never really occurred to me to do that, and I was always moreinto sort of observation stuff, the ridiculousness of like the things Idon't know the typos in life, the really city of things no man everconsiders you look at and go what the heck. Why would you- but I rememberspecifically, is do the thing about there was in Amsterdam and I went there. Therewas like a cafe which had like food in the window that could have been therefor a very long time. You know, like cheeses, dogs and stuff, that I don'tknow they were formed like twenty years ago and the name of it was good luck.Yago luck! If you eat here, because you could die, you just think why a youcalled it good luck, why? You know that's just what you saying and it'sthose sort of things that amuse me and because specifically because I thinkit's quite because we were a double act, but we were presenting, stand up andwere doing stand up and I think any way you can do stand up as two people as ifyou have something to refer to just to happen. There was a projector at thevenue, so we would use projection. We both refer to and talk about that and-and that became the basis of our act like the second, mostly comedy in we'd,used up any material that we had ship. We we do something this, and then thatbecame the thing that sort of spurred on our stand up was always using theprojector and then an I start doing stuff. On my own, I use some of that aswell, but even then funning, I shied away from that. When I started doingsuf of my own, I thought T. I can't do anything that me and Glendu, and Ithought, but no one knows what we do. Why I, when there making thismodification myself but yeah, it's always been a way of sort of yeah. Iguess they are keeping them in separate pockets. I don't really yeah. I'd have to feel inspired towrite a funny song to want to do that and again it's a bit to contrived. Ithink, like I know, like you're, probably the same as me this for somerising. I needed to be inspired by something you need to have a reason.Yeah again to sit down going. I will write a funny song. You can lady go wasan accidental thing me and Chris again from my band had like an afternoontogether. I just bought you Kalele. We spent the afternoon writing that Songnot intending to use it for anything, but it's quite a good yeah he's quite agood of song that I still do occasionally but yeah I didn't. I don'tknow you follow the accidental things in life. That makes sense at thatmoment, when I started doing comedy, it made sense to use this projection toshow the things I saw was seeing in my life that I found a musing. Didn't makesense to me to do music and that's why that became that really so yeah it'syeah has just accidental by many things in mine yeah, and I suppose, I'mthinking back to the days of you know coming to see your band big day out inhitching in Bombo. Was it bom bore, which became Bandino AndinaCross funny enough, mostly comedy move there for about. It was the worst two or three years, aout sort of run, because it's just the room wasn'it. But yes, i remained in mylife for some reason, but yeah- and i remember you- know you and, and chris and markwere naturally funny. I guess that kind of beetles dynamic, your yourpersonalities and your humor shone through, but it was that group dynamicthat made it so enjoyable to watch you live. You didn't have to write funnysongs. In fact it wouldn't have worked. If you tried to write funny songs, itwas just doing things like you know, starting the set or playing the wronginstruments and kind of going hang on a tart again, because there was a w. Ithere was a window behind this, you remember, and we did did one werechriste. Drummer was on the other side of the window. Now you got come in, do the on the wrong side of the glass so yeahwe used to do things like that, but yeah the songs weren't funny funny enough. We had. We had him on outpodcast recently, but mart morris, the e son of the blue tomes and when hedoes solo stuff, it's the same sort of thing he played his songs are from theheart, but he will be funny around it, and maybe it's that slightly sort ofembarrassed by you know what i mean by by what you're saying in the song. Soyou sort of work off against it and the beatles. Yet he the same, they couldhave been comedians absolutely could have been comedians. You know therewere naturally weirdy funny people. They just did that nort yeah, naturallyso yeah, but the funny thing was in my band mark was the funniest mark was anaturally funny person without trying he could be a great stand up because hejust as a now yeah. He just is a funny person and i always felt a bit morecontrived in it. But then again i i i think it's the put impositious look ateveryone else, going o be an in the fraud and i don't know yeah forwhatever reason i put down a guitar and start doing comedy and then that's beenyeah. My main focus for about suppose...

...fifteen years really something likethat and chris is god. The drummer has sort of played his hand that this isn'ta comedy do as well. Isn't he yeah he was, but that was kind of again when hehad time. I know his main job now, as he writes so music for adverts and forregio stuff and there's that sort of thing so, but he still, he still doesdo use it with mark occasion, as well. You've kind of you said being in comedynow for about fifteen years, that sort of it's interesting that that that is apath that the chris, the drummer chris holi sorry took as well. Yes, yeah andhis comedy bands panax burly they are. They were really really good, reallyreally good, really very funny, so yet they could have done that thing. Hedefinitely could have done that thing. Chris, is supremely confident. Healways was, and also in the nicest possible way is quitefunny. Looking even know that and even play that so so yeah he's got a goodsort of forthright intelligent approach to life used to be news reader as well.So it sort of follows: is interested in that sort of thing so yeah his comedyband. They were very good, but i think just yeah, it's a bit like me nothaving time for the band really yeah. He didn't have time for that. Yetanother job and didn't really do it, but yeah. I think we all felt we any ofthe band could have been comedians really. I was just the one that drewthe shawl straw. I think i first saw, i guess, glimpsesof you and glen, forming that that double act, sort of magic that you haveis because you did the buddy holly show and which was glen, the manager, thecompany manager, the tor, that you did just and i think they're still on line up.Tave buddy, holly tapes, where you, just as you say, sort of observation ofstuff about kind of grassy, hotel rooms or whatever this is the hotel room canwait field, it o mirror it all the washing and everything. I wasinteresting that they should be washing on the line. So we take a look at thetower that i've been supplied with a lovely, suspicious staying there and sotitle shot other lens cap. But there we go suspicious staying there. Any idea ithought that may be as on a post card, marking the right hand corner staying.Is that really? Where you you formed? Do you think that? But i mean, did youdiscuss it? There we started when it was in two thousand and five, which wasthe same year. I started body. Actually, i was doing a play on the fringe londonfridge and someone who also went to a su vincent comedy actress. She came tosee it and she was a member of a writers group, comedy rice group or thecomedy project and she came to see it and it was kind of a comedy and shesaid to me i did you know. Do you write comedy- and i said yes, where wereality had written like one like comedy, monologue, really al now h, youshould come and join this writers group, so she invited me along and the firstyear i did it. We got glenni as the sort of company manage again thecompany manager for it, and this rices group had some like big names in it aswell, and there was so me on the side and then the next year glyn joinedproperly. We started drying together, so that was two thousand and six. Ithink, and it was around the same sort of time i got cleaning on the buddy jobbecause we needed a driver and a toll manager. And again, it's like trying toget your friends with you, so you came in on that so yeah it was, and it wasthat thing of there's a weird thing with me: grinan we don't work togetheras much as we used to, but all those sort of buddy tapes things there werenever retakes, they were, and we do it now. If one of us switches on a camera-and we see a thing, we sort of just go with it and there's like an instinctivelike psychic thing, where we did a radio show for a while, and we wouldlike have a vague outline. What we can talk about. There was always this pointwhere, like i felt okay, that's the button on that bit and then glim wouldplay the next song and we didn't have to say that it was just there and it'sthe same sort of thing. We switch it on. We become that thing. We switch it off.We don't think about it, so yeah on that tour. The thing that kept us sanewas doing this little video diary and i watched on them again recently and theyare quite funny. You know they are because because touring is not the sortof you know, glamorous thing you might think it will be it definitely in aherrie hotels with unclean sheets, and you know, but again it's something tofight against something to find the humoring and those sort of things. I always prefercomedy. We you almost ate to write it, it's just there and it was that yeah.It definitely sort of spurred that on and that yeah i don't know it's aboutfinding your comedy voice. I think it was a way for both of us to sort ofreflex our muscles and go. What do we find funny so yeah there's a thin andwhen i started doing solo stuff, because greens availability wasn't somuch their anymore. It was a very weird change, because suddenly i be so usedto doing this thing with another person and and sort of bouncing off that so ini didn't have that had to find my own voice without the second thing and yeah.That was an interesting sort of journey to take but yeah it it. The accidentalwas always the thing that sort of drove...

...a comedy in the same way the accidentaldrove sunrising. You pick up a guitar, you play a slightly were called you all,that's interesting, and then that became the song is the same soulapproach. I think the last time i saw so you work was edinburgh fringe in twothousand and eighteen, i think it was was fortunate enough to see your showdavid f grave. My part an is down for what i liked about it. I mean it was aunique show so sort of bravely shine in a light on mental health issues, depression,anxiety, sort of all things that had impacted you, i guess on a personal andmay be a professional level as well over the years. What i'd like about theshows? I guess the fact that you spoke so openly about really personal issues but like in a very funny way. You knowi mean you weren't laughing and thinking it. Oh, i shouldn't belaughing at this. You you know you. You talked about it in an honest but openway that and it made it funny. Is that what you wanted to do? Did you want toshine a light on things? Maybe you had no possibly felt that you needed to kepkeep hidden. Now, it's fair to say these days. We live in a time where, askind of in vogue to be in the public eye and soften from mental ell problems,i say in the pubby guy, in the sense that you are the public. You arelooking at me with your eyes. I i to think that i was depressed yearsbefore it faeries twining, away my depression and stoking the boiler ofnegatives. He essentially shining a torch for other depressed people, aship torch with no atre, even as i was doing it or is it as i was in theprocess of doing it, i wasn't sure if i was ready to do it and to be open aboutit and i sort of wrote myself into a corner really because it was the third or fourth surley show i did, andyou know i fall on the title and i quite like the title and i basically istarted writing a blog about three or four years before that, because i wasgoing through i'd always suffer from depression. It has really a sort of i don't know, bein a sort of weirdnegative backbone of my entire life. That yeah probably, is the reason istopped doing me things. I did. I question a lot of things. My twentieswere not a good time. My teens weren't a good time really either, but when i started run the blog, it wasaround the same time. I started to properly get help and get treatment andi was writing every day to get through my depression really, but my material didn't really didn'treally go there and then i say i decided on that title and the idea ofwhat are the things. How have i been? You know i don't know creativemade things difficult for me. When was i the one throwing the spanner in theworks of my own life of my career? You know and some of our little sillylittle things like the sort of awkwardness things that you have like the time zebra crossing i held off a funeralcorte so like the i was at zebreros ing and they stopped there and you're likewell. Technically, i have the right of way here, but this is. This is terrible,you know and don't you offer things in life and the. If i should i have letthem go. You know what? If what if, like the you know the car with thecoffin, goes first and then in there and the rest of them holding off, youknow so those sort of cilia things you go whenever those things happen. Partme goes, i'm fucking useless and the other partner goes that's quite funny.I could use that for something and then yeah, as i say this title of it. Well,i can't really. I can't really call it there and not say this thing, and theweird thing was i had like. I had chosen, because not en the lead up toedinburgh i'll do like other festivals, the bright and fringed book and thebath fringe booted, and i was going to try this material that was quite openabout my depression and also about the sortof amusing aspect, because i used to go to therapy the mental health unit instatement which is very bleak, address and there's a thing i do where you bewaiting to go in and be seen, they'd have the radio on and songs likewithout you, you know, i can't live in a without you. We play- and you knowyou think, the woman- the reception she should have like a hand on a button tostop it because let depress people you've got that or hotel california.That was another one i play. You know the place you'll. Never me you low, andthis begono one else notice this. So i'd written this thing about that, soit meant in the first ten minutes of my show, i was going to say i sufferdepression and all these sort of things you guys are saying tapes for anxiety.Recently, one of the side of it said it may move adequate too happy s. E y. For me me around for a week tomy cd and my life got a tail be honest. You these are going to make you to a reasonable...

...in buttoned about somebody went intothe doctors through the tab, sound. My right, i came in here you diagnose withsevere correct oppression. You prescribed with it and now i'm toohappy. I don't think my tonino voice in previous booked, but for one reason oranother they didn't happen so the first gig what i was going to do a preview isgoing to do. The material was at my own comedy club in hitching on the samebill as bobby davro of all people and sudden so is like now. I didn't want todo this material at home because i wanted to try it somewhere else and ifi did it in brighton and bath and it didn't feel right still felt too much,i could take it out, but suddenly, the first time i was doing it was in my ownclub, where people know me for a certain thing, and i was going to justyou know, go straight into this thing, but the interesting thing was in doing that. It forced people tolisten. You know sombody, like okay, we better take this. You know take this inand as a result i mean it it really. Despite feeling like it,maybe it wasn't the right thing to do at the performer partymen. All this.This really helps. Suddenly you know people are listening and i can talkabout, as i say, because depression is in its own way. Funny i mean the er.Just life is funny the ridiculousness of the things that you know you fallinto everyday life. So i could talk about that. But theweird thing was to say: you had the focus. People were listening becauseyou can't, if someone say i mean even the think he is going to kick off. Igave some sort of you know incident. You cannot listen to someone when theysay i go to mental health in every week. I do these sort of things and yet itsort of opened a door of all the shows that i wrote. That's the one i'mproudest of it was. It was sort of the time and iput together aspects of me that i hadn't been in to comedy before i diduse music again, who songs that i rode, but i talked about the mental healththing and yeah it just as i know it was a weird one or other shows what youspend your time. Really writing. I didn't re spend time nicing that itjust sort of fell into being, and it worked, i think so yeah. But then there was this weirdthing like i do interviews, because i had like a pr person, so i dointerviews for the show i did one for like a radio thing and the next day orthe day after, because i have because i'm very sober sort of ego centric. I have likegoogle alerts with my name because o more because you know when you, whenyou promote yourself a comedian, you have to know, what's there to use itand like the next day, i had this think im up saying: comedian with depression, bah blah blahblah at talks about so a thing that i said in an interview which i think is adifferent thing to print who suddenly? Oh, it's there. It's a thing now andthat thing you know- and that was an interesting thing to come to terms with, but i think because i don't know i'msomeone that generally wears my heart, my sleeve about things, and it was theone thing: i'd not really talked about directly and it really has been. Youknow such a big had a big impact on my life as it does. I know i was going to do one day. I wasgoing to talk about it, but it just yeah. It felt i think, yeahyou do feel you feel you shouldn't talk about these things. I think. As a as aman as well there's you know, i mean the the statistics of men who you knowcommit suicide. You know of around the age of forty, whatever it's the it's,the biggest sort of chunk of people, really your yeah you're kind of taughtnot to say these things and then, when you're, a performer you think. Well, ican't say i suffer from depression and anxiety because that was going toemploy me they're, going to think you know, i can't do it, which is notnecessarily the case, because you know you get in a weird way: i'm much morecomfortable, a much more comfortable on stage than i am in real life. I think,like you, an stand up, particularly because there's something about thenature of it is a bit like e, a musician. You suddenly get into a thingold in the mike you're there, it's like being bynd a guitar. You have a senseof authority. You know your status is higher than the room of that point, and even if it isn't is be it's controlled.You know, there's like a proceeding march and you're doing this thing inreal life. I can't control what's happening. What's going to come up tome so yeah, it's a way of focusing it and driving it, but i don't have inreal life so much, but in doing that and spending a month in ember talkingabout it every day it was a way of more coming to terms ofokay. You know this is okay, you know it's like a part of the treatmentreally and so yeah. It became a way of normalizing a few things. I think thathave been a bit of a secret. I mean there weren't a secret they're in allmy songs. They were. I wrote in my blogs about where i was at. I justhadn't really quite joined the lines together, but the show wasn't all about that wasabout the stuff as well, but yeah. It was definitely- and it was a funnything to do- is for you nothing like your friends come to see it or yourfamily come to d. See it, and i found a...

...lot of like things with my family-would actually only ever be discussed with me on stage. You know variousthings that happened in my life with my mom and my dad would come out with mesaying it as the material with my dad in room. So we'd never had thatconversation, but suddenly i was doing it, you know, but the fact that he hada hernia for thirty years, but that out of her the thirty years didn't tellanyone and i spent the whole thirty years thinking i'm gonna die. I've gotthis terrible disease. Thirty years, like five prime ministers and like yeah,have me as at the abime ministers, five olympics or something, and hethroughout this life. He was like worrying about this thing and and andyou know he went to a doctor and he had other health problems, but the hero asabsolutely fine and they and they fixed it so in a weird sort of cathartic way.I would talk about this with my dad there and he would laugh about it. Youknow he would laugh about the ridiculousness of it and it sort offreed up a thing and the room would laugh as well and my dad, because hewas a big supporter, my comedy he came to nearly every mosy comedy be ever didso. That's hundreds of shows, you know he loved it. He loved it and yeah. Ijust i don't know the and it's about reality. I think that truth like liking,music, truth is so essential in comedy, and how could i write truth withoutwriting about my depression? I couldn't. I would be really masking a big part ofmy personality, so yeah yeah. It felt like the right things to do. I stillthink it was the right thing to do it made it more. It made it more. Real at me got is isuppose it's a kintla coming out or something you know that thing you havethis part yeah that really well, i say, defines you it does you know, but youhaven't said it and and having spent having spent like theseyears right in the blog having spent those years in weekly therapy, it wasjust taught made sense and it was one of the most therapeutic things. I'vedone yeah and, as you said, you know it wasn't. Just you know straight comedy, then, becauseyou, you did include your own music songs that i even knew, because iremember you playing them with the band or i remember you being at that pianoin the college. Writing them. You know what i've always admired you as asongwriter, you know and listening to those so many years later, and thenadding that context of you know you speaking openly thatactually i wrote these when i was at a pretty bleak place added. I mean i liked that about theshow they were serious. At the same time, they had a sort ofcatchy a catchy sort of hook. You know and that lifting feel to it a littlebit like the juxta position of the comedy funniness of the show and the sthe subject matter, yeah. How difficult was it for you to strike that balance,or did you not think about it? Did it just happen? Spend my t o. We o wondering m wrong, always be on now. I feel i'm only a a what you somuch. She is an ines you go. I've got a fillan hour here. You know, and it was and funny enough with each person yearright in my shows and largely because of depression. Actually i started writing a lot later. You know ididn't feel ready. So with that particular show for various reasons. I...

...was really sloping it together and wheni thought i could put the songs in yeah, part of it was like. Oh, that will fillsome time, but at the same time like like, i said you know, i neverwrote funny songs that wasn't really why i did and i supped that you'resaying about with the band as well. The band was funny around it and the songsare serious. It was the same sort of things, a part of me when i used to dogeeks on my own, an acoustic. You know you'd be a some of them. That's whati'd naturally do you know i wouldn't write anything, but i would just sortof joke around and then play the songs, so it sort of made sense to me to dothat and also i thought it's a good way if you're talking about depression, butyou are making it fine. You are making light of it. It's quite nice to have the littlemoments to go. Oh no! He don't! You know. This is a real thing. It is. Ican be quite a bleak stark thing: there's one particular song therefolding down, which is a son o? U i wrote and in when we put dram schoolage. You know it's got a line in it, i'm only nineteen. I must o worry somuch, and that was the thing that kind of has haunted me through my life,because when you get when you get older, sometimes you look at it and you go god,and you know i was nineteen, and i was that was the thing that was, you know,really a big part of life. It still is you know, god? Why does that not goaway? Yeah, i don't know, but at the same time you do you change and yougrow, but i just thought it was a good way of having a little touch of thatand also because yeah, i suppose, because the sons will hopefully quitecatching that helps as well, and it did a weird thing in that because inedinburgh shows and stand up show if you get a sort of love, because you canonly listen to someone to walk for so long. If we get tired and i or aroundthe fourteen minutes of you know, is an hour on show, i think the songs helpbecause it freed it up a little bit and also you know i i just sort of feltreally it helped it and then reviews reviews are a thing that hortoscomedians most performers only got one review. I think that year and they cameon a day when my technician mat at the beginning ofthe run. You know a site, we do sort of shows you have ten minutes to get in,but the other show is going to get out in that time as well, because i wasusing a projector because i was using a guitar by very nature. Everything arewired up. I had very little time and actually just happened. I was the firstshow in the room so a time to set up and not to sit down, sit down back downand a technician arrived late, so i had knew i'd a review in and the technicianand drive lay. I wasn't sure if i've been up on time, i was stressed so as aresult, i went into the show you know without that little moment you need togo. What am i doing now, i'm doing this center and do it so it was a bitspreadin, but yeah you had press there and- and the thing they said wassomething this of you know. I don't know they said it didn't work, puttingserious songs in it. You know, i don't agree, i just don't agree and also youknow when the show got well. The show got time and eventually filmed it in anevening with a full room rather than like three people at the front that weuk it worked by. Then you know- and i also pressing edinburgh they're likethey say press you know, they're, just someone that's gone into may maybenever seen any comedy that you know they sort of judged it startle orwhatever it might be for a while. I guess because i read that i went okay,that's kind of what i worried the show might be. Then i say: oh well, you knowthe songs track it down. I don't think they did and i don't and- and you knowyeah you just have to you- have to get over those things and just carry on,but it it really helped to help make the depression real. It helped. Youcould step into that moment and you could put the guitar down and go right.Let's go back to this thing. We're talking about it worked for me. Itworked for the show, i think, as listening to your more than mostcomedy podcast recently the other day. In fact, the episode with bobby dabro,oh yeah, and you talk a little bit about reviews and reviewers, and ithink what he said was a right, which is you know, basically, that the onlyreviewer that counts is yourself as long as you're happy with what you'vedone and you're pleased with how it's gone and that's the the opinion o esoand the only problem is, i think, when you're, when you're less, when you haveless of a name reviews do sort of matter, because they, the thing givesyou a bit of coverage. That might maybe we come see. You i've heard a lot ofpeople because so the act we have a mostly comedy. You know whether we'rehaving that chat on a podcast with having it privately even like when wedid our first head and brutal bay. I was saying about and at the same timethere was a cam right show up there about spite milligan and michael barron.More was in it planes by melian, which at the time i thought really. I can'tsee that at all, but a friend of mine is a company manager on and she got mesome tickets and me and glen went to see it and he was just brilliant and itwas so so good and then this friend came to say i come see the indaba andbecause this play was sitting in a hot air balloon basket the whole thing asin the barskit so and we'd start in the basket as well, that hiding and sowe're hiding in the basket in the small room in edinburgh and my friend andmarie comes in and someone else comes in and then michael barmore walks inany of the i- and i saw this and then...

...the lights went down and the showstarted. So i had no time to say to the other two people on the show unclebarron was in this room right now. We don't really. You know it s such abizarre. So the whole is like there is no, like you know universal face. Youcan pull to say michael bar moles, in the room. We need to be aware of this.We need to know, and then we met him afterwards and he was so kind andcomplimentary about it and he, you know, invites be, becomes a serous and he'sremained every sort of that we did. We did a reading of the sitcom and heplayed himself in it, which was fun as well, but he said to us. Then he said ito terrible name dropping, but he said you know you, don't don't read therefuse of it mean you know they don't mean anything they're not worth itthey're, not, and also there's a thing. Why do i hear it? They might be eventhe bobby everything. That's what talking about the only critic youshould trust is yourself. I do agree with that, but also depending on yourpoint in your career, you it's not so true, you go what i need to have a goodquote. If i have a bad quote, it's not going to work so yeah, but it is trueand the point is they come there to write an opinion about it? They have tofind and they're writing reviews for a lot of shows, so they got. Okay. Gowith guitar depression, sad songs, that'll do you know, and it doesn't endlike yeah, it's one person's opinion and it's not an opinion. I asked, for imean and and honestly it's so true you have to in the same way songwritingwriting comedy. You have to trust the thing you know and there's a thing thatthe england do that we just do, but i trust and glen you know he thinks he'snot funny. He always doesn't feel like he's a comedian he's he's in that's hisimpostress thing going on there as well- and you know i've said to and oftenwhen it comes to me. She comes sometimes i'll host it on my own. Ifyou can't believe her, he never wants to host somethin his own. Without me, isay to him: you know i say this is your thing. You know there is no one who cando it more right than you. This is your thing, trust it and he makes me laughbether it be intentionally or unintentionally, more than anyonereally, but he thinks he's not funny. You know or whatever- and i think i'myou know i'm depressed- i think i'm not worth it or whatever it might be. Weall have these sort of inner monologues that define so many things in our life andat the same time, because i meditate a lot- and i use that very early on in mydepressing treatment. People talk a lot about mindfulness and you know it'slike. I think we, your in when you in the throes of it, you think. Well,that's not going to work for me, yeah, whatever you know is, and it takes along time to come to the point you go, no o. No, i will try this but yeah. Imeditate a lot and you realize how little time you spend in life in thecurrent moment, you know you're either in the past, during the future. You're,not thinking about now and in reality. Now is all we really have. You canwaste so much time by being caught in you know a moment about something:that's long gone, you know, and you know life is an infinite we've got to.We got. We've got to get on with this thing, but it's a funny thing. That wasa say, glin doesn't think he's funny and and it's my job to say to him noand the funny thing again with the podcast i think, is but one it's easierthan nice material. We don't have time, to wit, material together anymore,because he's got kids and you just there isn't time, but something likethe podcast. You don't have to write for you know something like a radioshow. You see that you don't have to write for you just fire off each other. You know, i know he's really lovingdoing the podcast now as a i. It's a shame, because i've always felt thisthing. I saying about having something a little bit sort of special thatstands out. I think there's something about when i work with glean there'ssomething we have together. That i do think is a little bit. I don't know sary aran,say special, because at the same time i always think was hit fluctuate from both, as i always did inthe band. As i do with everything i do, i thought treason being arrogant enoughto stand there and do stand upon my own and under confident. I think why thehell am i a doing this and it's a very weird line to sort of follow and to tryand sort of measure out yeah. Now the thing about the double at there wassomething there and ridiculously. When we were used to run this comedy, weended up running this writers group. I told you about. We got advice on whichagain be like running a comedy club, it's all adman and not really what youwant to do. There was a time when we were hosting one of the events and justdoing it off for cauf, and there was a bbc producer there and she liked us andhe come talk to us aft. She don't come in. We have a chat, so we went to thebbc and the kid inside again this i'm very much led by the kid inside. I wantto do the things that the kid inside dreamt to doing, but never thoughtwould happen and mostly comedies a bit of a cation point, because we'veinvited people that we had pooled anuals before there was a very biginfluence on me when i was a kid, maybe want to be a performer, and i got thechance to spend that day with him to him. Do a magic trick. Just for me andinterview him and the kid inside, my god, there was nothing. I wanted morethan to meet that person, but he was in the telly and you know millions ofpeople watching it and it was just completely impossible and likewise it met. You know comedyclub, this accidental thing it started with just people we knew b d. Then youstarted trying to get other people and...

...some of the first comedians we had. Itwere just starting out with people like josh wickam, james, a caster. Thesepeople now nishka, it's all very big, but you learnt from watching them andthen you go. I can i still dont get that person every time you just try andget people. You dream of having and it's the same with this thing, the kid in are going upwe're going to the bbc we're having a medium. We haven't written anythingreally of any word, but we go into the bbc and it is purely just off the sortof dynamic we had and on your own as a stand up, i don't think i mean. Maybeit's moving too hard. I don't think i have the same sort of not saying that the same spark, butthere aren't very many diacts it now and we had a certain thing that sort ofworked. So part of me goes god if we seen that through as we would haveliked to have done. I think something more could have happened from that, butyou know the john an an line. Life is what happens when we're busy makingother plans. You know it doesn't work out that way. But having said that, youknow i've worked with green for about fifteen years. The comedy cops inrunning for twelve years. You know every month it happens and you know,and it's grown to ridiculous people at harry hill and i jupiters and we havenealin. You know that the musical python did a gig only a few months, bewe passed away and and funny enough with the ucata girl. We did that thatnight she thought. Oh, we do some music because he's there and we did it in thesand ship and then he came up to you on that songs. In my head now and i wasthinking fucking now, net neelin's has my song in his head. That should nothave happened. You know and i'm very driven, as i say by the kid inside andmaking those little things happen, a little bit of sparker magic. We go, ishouldn't have happened, you know, and you know my bank balance doesn'treflect it in any way, but yeah that and so yeah. That's as a say, i think,there's a little spot there, the sort of business men ome goes. Oh, thatwould have been better. If we've done that you know. But as i say, whathappens is what happens yeah exactly. You know, i know it may feel, like youknow, i'm just a comedy club promoter, i'm not really doing my own thing, it'sabout other people's comedy about other people's acts, but it is still yoursand glens club. You still, you know before the lock down, you were stillgetting up and doing standard ratines oye, and i mean i used to run a clubquite similar. I think i mentioned earlier called pike mix. All sorts is alittle bit like mostly comedy, but in reverse, so ours was mainly music witha little bit of stand up comedy thrown in and we stopped that subsequentlybecause of all the ad men, but you know silver linings. You did get to haveyour idol, your like paul daniels, there doing his magic in the corner andthose experiences did happen absolutely and that's fantastic and it'sridiculous. It's ridiculous. All of old of that you know and that you know. Isaid that the accident the comedy club was completely accidental. You know itwas an excuse to write the to every month, those first couple of years goodand i were really writing a lot and yeah. We do dip into that and there'ssomething about what we do is quite easy to get back into it withoutrehearsal e, an think about it and then i'll host, some or i'll do somematerial. On my own, but yeah i mean honestly, it is kind of insane what itgrew from to what it became and that's it yeah. As you say, we're still going.We still and doing this podcast. We been sort of re inigo, rated yeah, but you know it's like you alwayshard in yourself. I was think well, i should have done this and the comedycup is good because it you know it does now bring in a bit of income, andactually i learned to be honest, how much people valued it when the ovidthing hit, because suddenly we had to stop, you know we just live on else. Westopped doing shows because we have an office that and we have like the storeequipment and things like public liability, insurance and venue highthat we do all those costs were still going, but nothing was coming in and wedidn't know how it was going to come in when it was going to come in and we setup a just giving page to help it and we've got about two grand which hassort of kept it on its feet and now we're doing the podcast which doesn'tearn money, but it keeps it sort of going, and we had like something likeeighty messages on this thing. People saying you know how much they sort ofyou know value it or want to have it back. You know particular time likethis people want to get back to that sort of. You know, there's a thingabout comedy that it's a release, it's a release that we all need and,honestly you know my time in whatever room we've been in doing that has beenfilled with so many like it sounds, came ankey but literally magicalmoments. A lot moments with you know these dream sort, performers doingsomething some one like james, a casters. I don't know if you'refamiliar with, but it he did. You know he did our second ever most comedy andwe didn't know any comedians. You sent the measure through a facebook and hesaid, oh by the way, ps, i'm not a dick. I kabu see os early gigs when he wasdoing hit was doing her. He came with the material he wanted to do, but hejust ended up playing the room for an hour because it just sort of happened.Might you know so inspiring because he's just exception al and like funnyenough, the...

...only time billion i went to edinburghwith a joint stand up show we were in a pub of the meadow bar in edinburgh andthe show before us was james and josh vidica, not sharing a sort of it. Youknow just to trying stuff out so that whole month, who was spending that withthem and yeah, both very inspiring people, so there's been so many momentslike that will put anuals as at mostly when we had rorie john thompson, all kid all kinds ofpeople. You know that is a thing that can help you through depression againand keep us spoking, and we are doing thing it is still going. You know, andi've met people i never dreamt of meet through doing it and now, through thepodcast you know, having interviews with them is crazy. Really these areexceptional people. Oh, so there's a thing like i like to re in my mind. I ito have something that i refer to to make that real. So, for example, whenwe had idomen his dougle from farther head again, it was one of those thingswhen i was at school when i was school that was on, that was the thing peoplewere watching. I remember i used to spend my physics lessons talking aboutfather ted, to a kid simon offered that was there so when introduce er a hand,an i sort of you know i used to have that conversation. Her is i land andyou know you just have to go. I have to sign post this because this should notbe happening and it was funny as well, because when before he'd arrived hisone of the ones he book through his age- and you know we're setting up- and ihave a phone call- and it was here- he said i, where do i part and again islike i never thought i'd have a conversation on my phone with dogalfrom other tales is ridiculous. You know and yeah. So, even if it's onlyfor me or i like to sign post as things to remind myself where we are what'shappened, what's happening here- and you know, you see some really inspiringpeople poor daniels, the gig that he did, which was only a few months beforethirdly, passed away- and it was at the market theaters of funny off- is wherewe used to do those very tap dance. Lessons that we were talking about,pulled annies in her pull daniels and debby mcgee. Read that room doing theirthing. That should never have happened, and also it was just a magical is theone time everyone wanted to be at the front and he was just so so good. Youknow a man he's been doing it for like sixty years. He did his famous the cupsand balls roti with one carton on board, and it was just so beautiful to watchjust so super sort comfortable. This is a guy. You know, played the west a andplayed vegas. Was the person to break welcome wisest record for the biggestaudience of christmas in the market, theater studio to magic in the corner,and there was a thing we finish his triggers doing. He said: oh thanks tillgetting a crassus like this should not be happening, but i did and that's yeah and everyonewas just so inspiring and obviously when he said he passed away a fewmonths later, you go god that new didn't happen. I'm so pleased that thekid inside got to spend that day with that person and see all these peoplelike bobby davro. You know this is weird thing as well. You find theperformance that people know about where and in fact one person said aboutpulled angles when he came to the club. One person who we both know, who shallremain names post to this podcast said well, will we laugh with him or at him? And i was like this- is a man who is?You won't be laughing at him? You know why? Because you know this person-because you know this person- that i now to stretch your mind to thinkingabout them because they're like they're, a household name and maybe they're- youknow they're from a slightly different, more sort of light, entertainmentbackground. Why do you think you're going to laugh at them and that veryperson came to the show and you know ate their own words a lot as he wasamazing and just go? Won't you i'm not booking anyone to laugh at them andlook in them because i want to spend you know forty minutes watching a manwho is just the most at the most amazing life and experience doing whathe does. Do it still loving it to rumor people, all of whom you know they willremember that forever. I will remember that forever and yeah. I can laugh atthem. For god's sake, o no! No! No! No! You won't you be laughing with them,but yeah, it's a strange. It's the same wit wall be devers, was going to saypeople sort of have this preconception, but i mean you heard the podcast he'samazing and he's kind and he's nice and he he cares about it again. Why?Because you know this person, yeah, yeah, really love and really reallygenerous, as well, really kind generous person and funny enough, you know it'sprobably not terrible to say on the record but afterward you fo me is. Iwas that all right, i i it was bloody, it was brilliant, you know so he's allof us or of has had that thing. We think. No, you know am i the ford andhe's bobby dar over got so when the mouth of podcast fist tasted, we hadyou recoton a japanese female camed, oh yeah, she's back on podcasting episode,three in may, and it was great to get her perspectiveon the world of comedy- is pellean. Japanese and female comedian in britainin itself was quite unique, but...

...particularly you know. Since stand upcommon, i guess is pretty much still a man's world, i mean okay, we've gotsome fantastic female comedians, like dane alexander, shabby corsand hate,robins who's performed it mostly before who's, the mo amazing and lovely, andyou of course you real go itself sandy toxic, so for example, or evenemma thompson, someone who's like an actor, but has that sort of yeah? Ilove sammy tox. You know i'm in love with her ashe's, an you know and joebrand yeah, but but why do you feel you have to go? Oh we've got this one, andthis one is this: there's i don't like the fact of that's how we feel we haveto frame it, but i should just be somehow they seem toget lost in the sea of male comedians. Porchaire yeah. Don't i don't want tobe lost in to see me really, which also sounds like see. No chestneter not gonna go. I guess my question is as the organizerof a successful comedy club. How do you balance having a diverse bill withgiving the pandas what they want? For instance, i'm guessing an eveningof jest female acts might not go down as well, but you've probably had line ups in thepast that have consisted just as men. Yes, yeah it's very hard, because also you alsojust tied to people's availability. So sometimes, however much you strive todo this you're tied to that and the thing about mostly when it started,everyone was unknown. So you weren't coming to see anyone you knew, but itjust a happened literally. Those first few people that became very big, likejoshua james, were on the bill, but there was like a point as he got biggerand bigger, and across a certain line you had to get names to pull people in.It's really important to me. I used to be s where we set about four or fivebacks on the bill. Now we tend to have two and one of them, sort of the biggerone and then us around it hosting, but i'm yeah very conscious of how maledriven it can be and how it can take over. So i'm always at first trying tomake it a mon female. On the same bill or to i, i tried very hard morerecently to get two women over two men so because there is definitely thissort of discrepancy and also yeah. I think, if you look at your bill over ayear or two years and go hand a minute, they're all men they're all white men.This is not right, but the frustrating thing is, i think, yea like people likeyour reco and lots of other people, shelbee sandy does it is well. Everyonehas to do it to a degree and it's a thing. That's all tied to a quite datedthing. You kind of have to point out the elephant in the room. If it's you,which is ridiculous, so you have to make the joke about. I used to do athing about sort of looking like a exactly was, but i can crapelet it was,but you have to sort of sign post the thing that you look like, so you have to do that and that's likea tin from like back in the sentis of t s. You know if you were an overt e campcomedian. You had to point that out, and it was this weird scenario wherepeople would be laughing at that who were probably not very comfortable withthat aspect of society in her life, but somehow that was okay there, it's avery weird line, so it's the same sort of thing yeah, you shouldn't be youshouldn't have to women or black comics or whoever it might beshouldn't have to sign post it. It should just be. You are good, you are acomedian, we're interested in your voice, that's very important to me, butsadly yeah i mean i think the bbc did a really bad thing when they starteddoing this thing, we'll put one one woman on every panel show and then itbecomes an excuse to just have one woman on the show which is ridiculousbecause it should it should be. You know, in fact, i think women are asslightly high percentage on the planet. Fifty one percent. It should be an eventhing. It shouldn't be like that. So yeah there's a part of me. That goes. Ineed to make sure that we have a diverse bal in terms of race in termsof whatever it might be in terms of sex,but it shouldn't be yeah. It shouldn't be this hard. Idon't know what it is and i don't know why, when there are plenty like as manyexamples of fantastic female comics or black comics or whatever it might be,but we still have to sort of say no, but they're really good. What you knowis ridiculous. It's a ridiculous thing, i think, is my comedy club. Isn't thatsort of brash stagni thing it never has been it's a room of people. You want tolisten to what you're saying. So i don't think even if the comic startswith sign posting the far that they are japanese or they are there's a woman.We have who's she's american, but she also speaks for him. Japanese and shehas smiled several ballsy and she does stuff about that very early on. But i then she moves away from it and ithink, if we're only having to sign...

...it's so ridiculous, o all look. This isa novelty. It's a woman, a fuck say you know, that's it. That is utterlyridiculous, but yeah yeah, i don't know, i think it is. It is difficult. It is avery male driven world and i think, there's a smugness behind that whichcan sometimes close doors for people and yeah. I don't think the bbc shouldhave one woman they should not be. They shouldn't have to sign post it, butthey certainly should be having an even bill. I don't know that answers yourquestion in any way. Yeah definitely, and i think it isabout, as you said, sign posting and owning the elephant in the room, as youput it yeah. So i think i remember from one of your shows. You know that you dothe section about doing now that you look like i don't have no edens orsomething like that or a poor man's kenny or something you know related towhen you do a google search type and in david f wave all these about threeimages of no ements come up, yeah and also, i think hitler is what it andfill collins. That's all right. It's like: why are these it m yeah, thenyou're not making a whole sort of sketch better. Just natally wants toleave in it there and then that's done with exactly okay. Other thing was theweird thing that ages, the top search for me was david,egad gay. So you put evertat we coming to asuggestion how many people are searching this for it to become astandard. You know it's like what you know and it's so common, because i findit when i look up to get quotes again like, for example, because we joshrelics coming back to the podcast and so just find find image you search ininstant, yet josh with a co. Wife just really could make it. Why fascinatedabout these things? It so bizarre. We say just pointing that out, really that it.It is a shame that that has to be done with you. I think i think that happensmore in the sort of live at the apollo world. When people are doing twentyminutes, they do that. His sign posting the thing that i am, i think when yousee them, do their shows. Hopefully, it is much less of that because i, in atwenty minute set, you have to sort of define your identity very quickly. Ithas to be very direct, has to be very easy to understand, particularly whenpeople's brains are sort of thrown slightly by the switch between one actto another. So i think that's why you see that a lot in those environments,i'd like to hope in most instances that isn't so much the case. If you dell abit deeper into their material, you know it's the easy laugh at thebeginning of the set, and then you go right. Let's get away from that yeah and it's when those sort of lifethat the apollo acts become known from doing that gig. You know, i'm thinkinglike sarah milica, who i am a fan of, i think she's very funny, but she is nowsort of defined herself as a overweight, short woman with a filthy mouth. By theway, i will swear a lot and sort of telling sort of sexual tit. I thinkthat came from sort of doing the life of the apolates, and that is very muchthe sort of structure she has to keep to now, yeah, which i think, as i said,i find a very funny. It gets a bit repetitive when you know that that iskind of going to be the basis of the of the material. You know yeah definitelyyeah, and then it plays to this sort of aspect of. Oh, that's all that thatperson can do because you're sort of feeding the fire of i do this thing. Ipoint out this thing so when they keep doing that thing, the the you know theunpleasant judgmental people are going well, that's all they do and it'sfrustrating because yeah she's much more than that. Many of theseperformers are much more than that, but you are, i think the problem is withcomedy you are. You are very quickly judged the minute you go on and youalso have to show that you are aware of what their judgment will be and you'rein control of that judgment. So if you look like a certain thing and if it's as ridiculous as it's yourrace or whatever you have to own that very quickly showyou're aware of it show you can send it up to get it over and done with. Ithink so. It's a bit like yeah it's addressing the elephant in the room, soyou can move on and sadly yeah. It's just an easy laugh and it is what a lotpeople do, but i think it just it's a bit like you know. I remember wewere college and putting up with an marie. So is so the md about, like thefirst couple of bars of a show, are the ones that either make you relax. I makeyou go, oh god, i'm not going to be comfortable watching this and it's thesame for a comedian. You have to have that thing when they go, oh, no, we'rein a safe pair of hands, and then you stop thinking about it and that's why ithink people fall to those very obvious. Stereotypes, sadly, is saris it i meanmy oft podcast is a flatform for marginalized groups to get their brand out there. If you like to gettheir stories heard yeah and the thing with comedy, like you justsaid, is you often have to highlight the thingthat makes you marginalized make a joke...

...out of it, a cheap joke and one that'sgoing to make you feel even more marginalized disposed, but then i guessat least you are hanging on to the essence of you know you are, buthopefully as say they move on from that, particularly in their own sort of showyeah. Once you address that, i suppose you can delve in the actual materialwhile maintain in a sense yourself just about entertainment. This is just be insong, so yeah they suppose. If something doesn't work, it's notstrictly a comedy clades in it's mostly comedy with a bit of other thingsthrown in and also yeah. It's a sort of hand you get out. If something doesn'twork, people are trying new material, you go well, that's the sort ofdisclaimer. It's mostly comedy not all hitching football club, a home ofkitchen football club, this next songs going to hang on, which is good advice.If you're riding a bike in moman, i son and you look some from where and i andi and she so is no mis. When your ain o o we watching the time o well, i can see asno and so had some punch. He is going to centah the time a gonna be okay, so to man, you downsmen an do join us next time on my self one. Wecontinue with that to to do day. At ma i mean he's such a big infce on starboys. Has po yeah he's the reason i.

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