Episode · 1 year ago

Mouth-Off Episode 17: Art attack - provoking feelings through visual arts


Next up in the series, I interview painter, writer, director, filmmaker, animator, graffiti artist, and spoken word, music and dance performer - KYLE LEGALL. Kyle has designed, written, directed and animated four 2D short films for Channel 4 and S4C. He also makes cover art and music videos for local Welsh bands. In 2015, he became was an artist in residence for National Theatre Wales. Kyle’s artistry often genre hops; from directing and writing for animation and films - to developing theatre projects and graffiti murals. In addition to this, Kyle also designs and makes his own graffiti clothing line (Higher Graphics). He is an emerging director and has worked on productions of Storm 1, 2 & 3, collaborating with theatre directors Mike Brooks and Mike Pearson.

In Mouth-Off Episode 17: Art attack - provoking feelings through visual arts; Kyle discusses his experiences as a black artist, prior to and amidst the Black Lives Matter Movement. He also talks about Butetown - the inspiration behind a lot of his work, such as his 2017, play “R.A.T.S (Rose Against the System), which he wrote, directed and acted in.


Featured music:

Intro and Outro theme music - by Clary Saddler 

Dee's Dish of the Day audio clip - by Kyle Legall - animation for Channel 4 (taken from YouTube)

Mary Secole audio clip - by Kyle Legall - animation for S4C (taken from YouTube) 

Cardiff 1919: Riots Redrawn audio clip - by Kyle Legall - graphic novel with spoken word text for National Theatre Wales (taken from YouTube) 

R.A.T.S promo audio clip - by Kyle Legall - play commissioned by National Theatre Wales (taken from YouTube)

Tell on you - by EARTH (taken from YouTube) 

Pieces of a Man - by Gil Scott-Heron (taken from YouTube) 

Revolution will Not be Televised - by Gil Scott-Heron (taken from YouTube) 

A Friend - by KRS-One

People in my Hood - by Masta Ace (taken from YouTube) 

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Welcome to mouth off, a podcast for and about marginalized groups. Episodes cover a wide range of topics, from race and sexuality, mental health issues and substance abuse. On today's episode I'll be interviewing Kyle Lagal. Kyle is an artist, filmmaker, writer, director, spoken word poet and dancer from Butuetown in Cardiff, a place known for its multicultural roots. Kyle also designs and makes his own griffiti clothing line. He's written, directed, designed and animated for to D, Short films for Channel Four and S for C he also makes music videos and cover art for local bands. In two thousand and fifteen, Kyle became the first artist in residence for National Theater Wales. As a director, he worked on productions of storm one, two and three in two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and nineteen, collaborating with Theater Directors Mike Brooks and Mike Pearson. Kyle is also a panel member for the organization and continues to facilitate workshops with many different communities, artists, performers and practitioners, and these involved performance, making music, creative writing and creating scenery. In two thousand and seventeen, Kyle wrote, designed and directed his own play are a t s or rats, which stands for rose against the system. This was staged in the Roof Freud at Wales Millennium Center. Kyle is also actively contributed to multi platform artworks for an exhibition that explores the legacy at the Cardiff one thousand nine hundred and nineteen race riots, pre covid nineteen. Kyle attended various national festivals with his hip hop pop up Studio Hier Graphics, which is a festival store where he would showcases graffiti on clothing, spray painting in front of an audience in a rap costume and delivering freestyle poetry and dance. So Gus for coming on chip. So you've got pretty a ECLECTIC list of skills there, but how would you describe yourself? Sort of first and foremost, in a nutshell, just a created a person. Really, am I sort of my talented sort of is painter. Wise, so that's what my always started off with traditional sort of drawing in things and I've been able to branch out and, I suppose, get out a different practices just to realistically, to keep money coming in and also just to be that creative I suppose. So I sort of, yeah, tried to get involved in everything. Yeah, and do you think you know it is? Do you see yourself an artist, like first and foremost? Is That who you are at your core, or like a creative person, a creative practitioner, or is it just all interchangeable for you? I suppose these are description is an artist. Yet I've sort of been called in myself an artist since I was, for eight years old. Yeah, and and yeah, people sort of recognize that within me and it was sort of become, I suppose, my lifestyle and everything and like a typical artist. And so, have you kept, like you still have the drawings from when you're an eightyearold? If you kept sort of doodles and things like that? Sure, I've got a lot of my school books. I started off drawing rocky and Jesus at a religious schools. Yeah, and when the teachers left and I left a high school, they get actually kept my books. So I'm sort of being sort of collected my drawings from a child. My Mother's gave me back a load of my books actually collected. And Yeah, so, so it's been sort of it in your life forever. Really. Yeah, it was sort of instilled to in me, if you like, because I people could spot or spotting that I was good as a young, young kid. They just sort of was telling me I was an artist. And Yeah, I saw it. Took of colder that, if you like, Anna showing off wherever I went with my parts like a drawer horse. At the end of six I drew it. Neil Callahan, one of the Labor and peas, came to Lun's. They said he's an artists a going draw me something. That's brilliant. So I mean, I guess at some point you realize you could make money from doing this and you've been working professional, you feel, for a long time. I'M gonna go back to the year two thousands. I do a little bit research online. So your channel for Commission to develop the three minutes to the animation called...

...these dish of the day, which I was just there watching on your video channel a couple of days ago. So this is like delivered as a recipe for the peas and Rice told by your grandfather. That's right. And yes, kind of got your griffits graffiti art sort of stamp on it in the animation. When when it tired me to cook. She told me she was never going to leave me to be as useless is me. Father. This is the dish for the day. The recipe is for Paul with red beans and Fred Rice. For us, we cut the pork into cubes, chat the onions nice and fine and chop for Chilli peple. But the reason for taking our deceeds to save you from having to sit on a buck it up water when you move to the climate. So, using like a family members voice it is that something you know? Do you often draw on your personal experiences within your work as either an inspiration, you know, or to kind of tell the story? Definitely, and my grandfather was one of the people I sort of always listened to and I guess poetry and things like that's I think he features in three and my first animations. HMM. And Yeah, it was. He was just is dialog that he'd been coming out with since I was a kid. I've always sort of been inspired by and he'd always give me young should make a film about this, you should topic about this. And it's like, when I got a chance to actually make my animation, I think like it was more like around like the creature comforts idea hmm. So go into the community and find a realistic recipe. And it was even going to be my mother or my father I was going to record. But at the time they will channel forwards, looking for a slot in between England and Jamaica playing cricket. Yeah, a little start of animation and that was like what, my first big commission. We're just left university and I applied for the the other commission within yeah, history of the UK, there's a lot of people pacifically, specifically with the Jamaican background. Yeah, so I saw bombarded them with ideas for a fax machine and the woman a channel for so okay, you've got the commission. Just stop sending as ideas. Fantastic. So, you know, fast forward a little bit closer to now. So you completed the longest graphic mural in Britain. So is it a five hundred and twenty four feet? Yeah, telling the history of Tiger Bay. How did this project come about and to what extent do you think your own like heritage where you're from, influence the work that you want to create? It came about by the council redevelop in the area. They was sort of knocking down the shops and rebuild them over a four year period and he had like this massive space to say, and they puholdings round that these parable on keeping there for the next five years. So it was of a brilliant opportunity to sort of permural. That said something and I think within the idea it was about me research on not just me, I my friends and I researching the history of the Bay and being out on a streets and being able to take local people's photographs in history and being able to paint him on the spot and sort of getting access to immediate sort of street history, if you like. And what I was able to do is paint off narrow the whole history of the land withinto fault with into forty murals. And yes, we're sort of depicted the bay from the dinosaur age really right through Neolithic to the first sinuits and Celts, when rights for the Romans Normans, and you realize what sort of magnisent magnificent sort of a history we've had just on this period, on this land, like over the pirates and where we are going. Glendower bed in a kind of castle and it describes him running to the sea. So all this was on the mural. I like them. Literally the mile of space we are as Beutel. What has gone on in that in that shots on this show speed at Peter Time. So we had riots on there. And Yeah, so like the lands of inspired me to paint, if you like, and it's sort of made me a Butani Storian and it self, like the projects I do about my community. So are always about educate them, informing and it's about educating myself the same time. Stuff that...

I'm interested and I say, I sort of tend to sort of draw up on and get back out somewhere. Yeah, yeah, I'm in talking about to the historic figures. So you made a three minutes animation for was it the two thousand and five black history months? Looking at the historic figure Mary see colors, part of the black history month celebrations in two thousand and five hospital. We need a doctor, a nurse. I saw one on the battlefield. I'll get her color. I've seen this before in Jamaica. But your luck. You sound like it the enemy. My name is Mary see cold and I am no one. And in the broadcast on channel for BBC two S FOSC. What does black history month mean to you? Personally and how important is it for future generations, you know, particularly of young people growing up now, you know, either in sort of urban communities or even, you know, in sort of more sheltered valleys communities where they might not be as much diversity? How important is it for these stories to keep getting told and heard? On the stories I think so important oral history and family history and things like that. Sort of the under history I'm interested at the moment is is history that wouldn't be written down. It's so yeah, really sort of local history and I suppose like as a weird one for me, black history, although like I've always appreciated it because there's a kid I sort of got the extra education by where I sort of field so targeted by the all sort of black history, if you like. I would like to maybe have Chinese history month and ye stream and include it, and then I wouldn't fit. It wouldn't feel so black history month. I thought. I've got a bigger thing about black history. Obviously. Yeah, I'm being mixed race. It puts me in a position where I couldn't get I tend to see both sides of the coin. I've liked that. Like to call her and I can see sort of the vices within, say, black history month, working with two handeds, let's say. HMM, yeah, a double lay. The shots als me. Yeah, you recently brought, you know, the history of the race riots, cardiffs, race riots one thousand nine hundred and nineteen into the twenty one century sort of via a digital graphic novel called Card diff one thousand nine hundred and ninety riots redrawn. When did you first become aware of this part of Wales is, you know, well, almost shameful history really, something is not often shouted about. And how did you turn that kind of knowledge into what became this project? In the front, pc James Birds, as he saw a gang of white men around, was already Lyne unconscious on the floor, with bloods things on the same piece. Frank lamborne later says that he saw a man he could not identify stripe up all on the head with the leg of a table which had been chopped off whilst the man was laying on the ground. As the officers climbed the stairs, Muhammad Ali fired several times. Fortunately, and maybe on purpose, his aim wasn't good. His first bullet passed through PC earnest MEE's helmet. A second went through PC brotherton's Cape. In a desperate struggle, Ali dropped the gun. He was overpowered and carried into the street. At some point brothers and hit him in the right eye with his left with Alice, right iron, cheap one, so swollen that the probably can't see. Also taken into custody. A City can see twenty one and amatually twenty four. Watch again. People at my grandfather, my father, was always telling me about the riots from going to college university, thinking of like local stories. It was popping up a lot and there was never any sort of there's no there's no book on it. Still to this day is only sort of transcripts from the newspaper and it was something I've always wanted to do, make a film about it, and I couldn't get the information. So when National Theater Wales sort of introduced me to my peers in and sort of them a three year research throughout the looking for the newspapers to sort of get a timeline and a scholarly sort of structure to these riots, was the first sort of evidence of facts I've every I ever heard about the riots and again, like a rather in being black history, I thought, like black history is history, so Ravan, I suppose it coming out as a black history thing. It was sort of like a accidental like I've been working on a project for three years.

So like the black lives matter all out of the time and never coming out was a bit mad. But yeah, I'm just interested in in provocative history, if you like. I suppose hidden history, Hmm, like picking as an as picking topics that not so much taboo but that people find difficult to discuss, like a like race. Yeah, it's something that has always affected me and it certainly affected my aunt. So it has become a topic, whether I like it, like they or not within yeah, sure, yeah, sort of unavoidable, I guess, just given what you've just said. There make the nature of the beast is out of I sort of only gain employed for telling black stories, where it's like one of my first animations I sort of tried to do I drew a bronze statue of Jim DRISCO, which is like the end of my robb road and he's massive boxer, could have been a heavyweight champion of the world. We decided to stay in card if and fight for the nurses, for charity and for that yelled the respective cared iff and he's called Peel this strim. So I've always liked this story. Again, my grandfather used to tell me about him. He had my biggest hue in a cared iff and my story was that my I asked my grandfather in the care as a cut a child, who's he? WHO's Jim? I know. We drive off and the traffic like hit's. The bronze statue goes to the green and Jim sort of turns his head the statue and acknowledges the question and jumps off the podium and jogs around Cardiff and all the statues of Cardiff, around the I don't know. We got some brilliant architecture around card if and a lot like the statue. People don't know who they are. So I sort of went around and I'm found out that they were like the Max buse family and the kitchener and all these sort of people. And then they'd say sort of dub their hat to to payless trim as he jogs past and they bought this ideas force. And when I drew more of the the art history of sort of rip that the script, found out more about when I lived in Edie, who wasn't actually a dogs person's mother was from New Newport, new town, which is just over the road there, and as an Irish community, so we sort of really really fresh history for me. I really enjoyed them writing it, but when I found out that he was a white man, they asked me to change the idea. So I was always sort of a up against these barriers where I sort of typecast of myself. Early, if you like, I was type casted for being a black ass, unexpected to draw black story. So they're sort of enforced my my way of thinking then to tell educational stories rather than telling that the stories I was expected to tell like, which is like yeah, black stories or really ignorance stuff that he was expecting. Really. Yeah, I guess that people think about as sort of positive discrimination now, but we're telling these stories better. Yeah, you know you as a black eye kinon as so is okay. Yeah, exactly. Yes, that's funny. You know, as a gay woman, that a lot of projects people approach me with involved LGBT history, manth you know, and that sort of thing, which is great. And yes, the exposure is you know, I'd ever turn it down necessarily. But yeah, you kind of want to be recognized for, you know, more than that, I think, like I said, it is double Aser Sword, because I'm since this black lives matter thing, I've never been so busy with with like with projects with sort of national health, for example, doing characters for them and the Millennium Center and just people are sort of would have overlooked me. I think before, in talking about, you know, history lessons and kind of delving into your own past, you've done a lot of work in which Tiger Bay has featured. Is that? I mean you've sort of already out answered it before, I think, but you think that's by design or is it accidental? Just because you are interested in that part of history? It's a bit of a necessity and also, like like said, the people I surround me within Boutana, which was stories and talent. So I've only sat score to step up my daughter to get an idea or or to meet somebody who's doing something interesting. So I guess a filmmaker, there was always that and like there's, like I said, they felt that there's those of talented people. So we as a kid who's breakdancing, rapping, singing, or whatever. So they saw that vibe within our culture down here. Oselve always inspired me, but I'm yeah, I think I can again. I've been able to make my work not solely about the bay, but having that interest up coming from you and then and the interest from outside Califf, for like Tiger base history. One of the reasons I...

...set up the company was because we, as you from a young child with sort of always seeing people coming in with that groups and so given us ideas or getting my big budgets and coming in the last Mande and employing the community to sort of do these projects. So I sort of seeing that as an opportunity to sort of do our own projects, how our own stories, and I thought that was important in a sort of grown more so over the years, last twenty years in fact, where my stories are sort of, I don't not on their feet, but definitely like I'm it's not so much by accident. The more my mind sort of is is thinking about the history of the bay constantly and I suppose twisting into the history I do with the rats and things like that. It's trying to make the fantasy out of him more like a I don't know that we got a very romantic sort of view of Tiger Bay and as a local person, there's a reality to that and there's a romance to so yeah, I suppose I've got a lot of draw on. Yeah, that's the you've mentioned the rats there. Can you tell us about your two thousand and twelve play that was inspired by Rat Island? How that came about? This way? It's not like this food in there, Fortune and glory. Is it safe? We've come so far from our home. I don't like this. We will show you our which done, little bro. It's time to look after our futures. You stay by you. I keep it. What's on the Exitsse anybody comes? If you see anybody, you gives the shop all rather right. Well, the rats and exis. What the Hell's that? The big fucking Brighton on the door above your lead. It says ex it. So we will come in, I'll go out. Could you see it? Can't we? Can You? Hmm? Well, not exactly. Why is it important? What the wraps are those girls? Again? As a kid we would have gangs. This is primary school and he was your time rats and there was a grange. COMEON, cats and I within the school is sort of like Aviouse, little scrap gangs and so like, just as nothing really, but it's sort of stuck with me. And that was like we was in a primary school that used to be rounded by where rat islands used to be, and I suppose a bit it was called Rat island pipe from the pirate days up until like what's called anyway, I'm not sure. It's sort of like it's one of them things that I don't know whether it was a fishially called right island, but okay, and a lot of literature from a certain age era this end of the dock was called Rat island. And then, like I said, I was making a lot of romantic stories about the bay and the facts, the history and stuff and really my imagination for as an animators no one I ever seen, because I'm constantly doing these historical project projects in that I'm sort of sort of more of a sci fi mind, and the rest was something that I was able to sort of, I suppose, expressed myself without having to use race and stuffs. So why using animals as able to talk about the community in anagradical tale where we're actually talking about the appropriation of bewtime and the development redevelopment over for generations and stuff. And the rats are actually based on my friends, which should, like I said, rabbit telling a romantic story. We tell a grimy story. So it's all above the poverty, if you like, and the hardship of a rat, and it sort of grew from there. It became about my employment. So the RAST, the rat, goes outlooking for her name and she got still something from the humans which will give her identity and that, I go also give a power and purpose. And they go over to the Millennium Center where they meet. If they bump into some other rats which like secret society rats which are going to blow up the bay. They've found the bomb that hasn't detonated since World War Two and I've been trying to blow it up ever since. So I sort of mix local history within it because as a child, within our school we knew that there were bombs all down done boards road that didn't explode, and I'm a school was actually evacuated. So I teach use to tell a stories like that. So again it's just stories I would put in my mind from a child I was able sort of amalgamate into these. I suppose the history I've learned by doing the other projects and the characters I meet on the street, my friends, and the sort of outlandish stories I hear. was able to sort of put them into the characters of the rats. And, yeah, I enjoyed the writing the ratis. Still haven't finished the process of I'm looking to... make an animation of his store. Yeah, I saw written an animation and National Theater Wale sort of come to my community looking for talent and I sort of got involved in the theater will done. I'm decided to turn the rats into a theater piece. Yeah, by making the masks and actually getting my friends to perform their lines. And Yeah, it's not like to be a brilliant journey where I have learned so much more about directing, just the whole experience, I suppose, of making the rest of the last five to six years since the genesis of the idea. Yeah, it's been crazy. Sort of put me on track to sort of where I want to be with making a feature film, if you like. Yeah, so the rest was something I thought would be simple and quick for me to do and if I couldn't do that, I wouldn't beat to do my feature, which is so much more complicating and the other rights are. Turned out to be a real good journey where I was able to sort of travel with it and actually see the effect that stories have on people, specifically as a director, watching the actors and I given finding the legs within the story by performing it and seeing like a joy I get from it. Yeah, makes me want to do things like that more definitely and I think I think I I've missed out on a lot by by taking so long to do one story like that, because it's sort of involves so much of my life sort of within it. Is Not like stories I'm writing now, which is like just just stories. Then that story sort grows with you. So I've got a couple of stories like that which on a back burner or sort of a yet you've got to have a project sort of be thinking about to see you anyway and to practice these sort of a crazy ideas you go. So the rats was one of them and use a lot of sort of local talent, Welsh musicians music featured within. How was that as a collaborative process? Was it sort of handpicked by you or they like musicians you knew? Or sure, yeah, I work in a creative space, the world short lane, their ghost buildings and the super fery animals of my neighbor. So I've been looking enough to sort of being surrounded by musicians or last ten years and yeah, I get involved in it, their music, trying to make music videos, jumping on their albums, trying to wrap and everything as much as I can. So when the opportunity came up for me to actually do a score for from my project that have the drummer, I got a good relationship with him. was able to sort of go around and collect these ECLECTIC sounds, like really from around the bay. So we collected that boat noises, the sound of the dock, and he's still good. As I'm wich, which really tried to make an organic sound for the rats and that put his rock and roll stamp on it. Then it was a very good rest history. The first you know about your your two thousand and eleven short film, Ten Minute Live animation, sorry for BBC. Three was it, which you won a Welsh bath for best short film. How did that come about? What was the inspiration and you know, is that? Is that like you're sort of most proud accomplishment to date or not? That that's more my friends project, Gavin Porters, right, so directed that. It was for it's my shout Welsh, I suppose, initiative to take on directors and writers and Gavin was doing his first directing.

I suppose it was called Sweet Sixteen, and I'm asking it to help him on the the visuals and I did some to the drawings animations for it. And Yeah, we was lucky enough to sort of raise the bout, I think, with the entries that was going in there, as we were very shocked ourselves that it is so continued then and got about a Welsh rafter. Yeah, amazing. And so this podcast mouth off is well, we feature a lot of stories about marginalized issues. So it's either, you know, episodes about or by marginalized groups talking about I don't know, I don't like the phrase taboo, but you know, topics that maybe on often spoken about. So we've had, I know, disabled playwright on talking about the visibility of disabled actors in mainstream you know, and whether or not it is right that non disabled actors are getting cast above disabled actors to play a disabled role and that kind of thing, and also talking about topics like cyber bully and homophobia, disablism, racism, lots of different is M's. Now, I mean you've kind of already answered this yourself. You don't really considerous if a marginalized person, however, how important you think it is not just your own. So I do. Even if I didn't die, I'd be deluded, I think. Yeah, like I said, it is something that I definitely affected the amount of work I produced and the work that I am producing. So, yeah, I suppose I use it to my benefit. I think I always have. Coming from the Bay and I'm going outside the school to rather I saw it was equipped with lucky enough to sort of deal with racism from a young age, being, like said, being from the baby we were educated and proud of we were and I didn't realize that I was mixed or like people. Yeah, like there was only black and white woman. Is Sort of the way it was. Sort of my mother's a white lady, sort was writing at as Dere's meant to do to that, because we had a big sort of a black alliance down here in assemblies and s where with Mash for apart, I think. So I grew up in that era where I was constantly making banners and matching and stuff. So, like I said, we was we was at we was informed and going outside a big time to school, I see the sort of extent of racism and and yeah, there the indifference I felt. I suppose you carry with you to it as an adult and that sort of serves you to identify where these things are happening then. And Yeah, I'm unfortunately sort of weird is head. Yeah, that's a couple of years and I've made people feel like it is the same these or something again. Yeah, I think I'm stories and that is the way to make an easier way to open these subjects and certainly to sort of make people realize that we are all human the end of the day, trying to live a life and express ourselves the same way. So it seems really really it's a thing which to be sort and more in modern day. Yeah, absolutely. And do you think, I mean what has been for for you professionally then has but you've said you've got a lot of work, particularly in the last, you know, last year or so. So what other barriers do you think that you have kind of hit within the field of the creativity, you know, to stop you? I mean it sounds that you've done very well, so maybe you haven't hit too many barriers. But what has been your the biggest barrier to your creativity? But I suppose the barriers are the gatekeepers. So I'm sort of being honest, like you, kept at at a level where the creative, certainly from a young age, if I've always been this creative and itching to make films and stuff like that, but never sort of being given the creative key to to do war I want, whether that's because of my race or because of the stories I'm telling, but I think it's definitely like the influence I would be able to give with my films. So I'm all the people I would employ. It's been a fact that so, yeah, I know is had because as well, I'm from a generation that I've had a deal with it. Like I was told that if I want to succeed, no one race them is out there to do twice as much, beat twice as it's good or whatever. Pull your BOOT straps up, sort of attitude my parents had and deal with this. So like went well whilst I was in university and I went through racism. The classmates would wright stuff on the register, like Kyles, never here and just sort of blatant the single me out and the teacher sort of...

...wouldn't see my work and my foundation, and I had to get him in trouble because I literally he wasn't letting me on further onto my next course, and I'm very sort of placid. So I and I had to be sort of, like I said, from a generation or sort of that at a suppose you've got to play the game, and the university I've sort of that. And because I wasn't hanging around with these kids, they sort of took it on themselves to sort of single me out and then the teachers sort of the sort of joining in on that, and I couldn't take that because they were stopping me progressing in onto my next year, which was my animation cost. So I sort of went to the student union and asked for some advice on this teacher. was sort of like saying I'm not allowed on the next year because I've some work I had he hadn't seen, or whatever I had showed in the work he hadn't mapped and my work, like I've always been talented. So I wasn't the most talented in the class because they was all artist but like his foundation, everybody's going out to different fields. And then I was certainly like talented within my field of animation and ideas, and I felt that he was putting a stop to that lot of like some really sinister jealousy or whatever, and could have really my career and my my motivation of when I was going at the time and look in Netflix. I went to the student shooting and they had an advisor which is not never forgot his name is. Name is Wing Wing Row Win Rowe Brown and Yeppen to be a massive black guy who just sort of finished a course in America and he explained that, like a white people don't really understand black people's body language. They think should. They caused us a lazy because of the relax and all its. Went through a whole thing with me and when I seen the teacher in, the teacher was awfully apologetic after that and for the next three years he was really apologetic. So it showed that, I suppose, his turnaround in the fact that he's maybe you've seen that you could have ruined my bloody life and for no reason ever than that that the kids, maybe the other children or the children he's been result those to twenty these other people wasn't sort of accepting me in the class and I felt away from and like that's go away till college, from my community wherever. So sort of it was a weird one. And again, like the industry mirrors that. So when I had my first job, encounters with people who working in the building coming going down the stairs past and singing. I shot the sheriff and had a lot of things that that's sort of very subdued racism that you've got a sort of less less slide. But if I didn't, I wouldn't have got this. Yeah, I mean I thinking about the arts as a wider you know, sort of encapsulating all of it. I guess certain fields in the arts have a reputation being quite elitist, thinking mainly like theater, probably more so mainstream theater, but it's definitely there. What advice would you give to, you know, someone from maybe a sort of in a more deprived area or, you know, working class background or just feeling marginalized from the industry in general that might think, you know, they're socio or cultural or economic backgrounds might be a barrier to them, you know, going to drama school, they'll go into the university and Studium, film or whatever they think they need to do in order to you know that. That's that's me. I dyslexic, so I wanted to write films and like the difficulty I've had sort of to sort of challenges to over I have that to overcome and still sort of do or whatever struggle with. You just got to do it, I think, all the more so like if with specially with theater, I thought it wasn't for me and always sort of stayed away. That, like growing up and now being a filmmaker or storyteller, makes me want to banging the doors either more and and these are the people were supposed to be looking for these stories or supposed to be like what they called the liberal people who are interested in fixing the world. Yes, certainly, that's why I found in theater, is that this audience, there's an audience there were interested in change and even though they I suppose there's an audience who, I always say that we can afford to go to a show after work and and mingle and and taking some deep story about war, poverty, refugees and then go back to their lives so it's a double Ed digital sword with me as well with that. But they definitely need the education at where what you're saying, we have that that they're denying a saying or even our story being told within these spaces. So like I'm need taking over the Millennium Center with my rats and telling them I'm going to blow it up. It's a sort of a statement that that's sort of...

...just I don't know, I felt that it was funny to say so I got we wrote a song called there's a bomb in the docks from World War Two and no one knew quite what to do call. The lawyers called it that. I don't know go but it goes on to like we're going to blow up the mermaid key. Yeah, the keepers of this city and the day we prefer. Performed it I think three times, like as sort of run throughs, and every time we did it, there's a massive event happening in Cardiff in a Millennium Center on a right. That about the first time Obama was coming to Cardiff Bay and because I had bombs in my play, they asked me like we didn't know when I booked it this was going to happen. Is just setting up with the other thing. I probably this is another thing I'm makes me think I should get into put it the go, make my things bit more political, because they're funny political, I think. But I really should have something more to say within a rats. And I think everybody expected me to be saying this sort of political thing, but it was at a bit of a joke about like a terrorism and stuff like the things I was going on. Like I said, Obama come down and they they made me take out all the literature of the play that sort of related to the bombs of debt nation explosion, and I couldn't say at all in the play, which I thought was funny. And we had this little bomb made out of like a mobile phone and like light flash and there was a prop and there they came and took that office. There's like who built this? Wanted to see me will building bombs, and they took it to agree station until an hour before the performance. Every day pickular and we had like it was so the making of the rats would have been like the spinal tap. Yes, of my friends, brilliant at twenty four police come to the show. I had, I am guards honest, because we went outside. And yeah, it's crazy. It was brilliant and at the same time, like I said, it inspired me to to want to say more. Actually, if they're as scared of what people got to say on a level where I'm running around with fairy hats on that point, then like Susan and yeah, but we're just taken at the map. But like the high security that the country was going in into, I sort of realize I'm I'll point it my story was and yeah, sort of set me on another journey to stack. Yeah, so is that that something that might feature in future work, work in the the plannings? My I'm turning into animation. I still want to make my feature of I've I've only done like an hour and a half performance of the rast whenever written written the songs. And Yeah, want to, I want to get out definitively like as an animation, I think. And Yeah, it's definitely sort of grown from the first sort of initial idea, which was just me my friends rapping. I said it's my friend, you get your your rats, I get my rats. On we meet by the flats and make a collapse perhaps or something like that, about these a terrorist rats. Brilliant. Oh, thanks for coming on the PODCAST. Thanks to the interview. Yeah, so to finish it, I usually ask a guest coming on to think of, you know, two or three songs that they have felt as impacted them, you know, on a personal level. Could be something recent, it could be something you written yourself or it could be, you know, an Oldie from childhood. So have you managed to thinking any? I haven't. I'm sort of more influenced by artists. So I thought I thought of like songs. There matters then of influenced me, I suppose, throughout the years. And Yeah, different genres. So girl Scott Heron would be my first at this is song pieces of a man, pops into my head that I suppose jaggy its tost about. I saw my grandmas with her, but she didn't know what she she could hard let understand.

She was a realist pieces. I was torn between that and a revolution will not be televised. You will not be able to stay home, brother, you will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on STAGG and skip out for being during commercials, because the revolution will not be televised. The Revolution will not be televised. The Revolution will not be brought to you by the rocks and four parts without commercial interruptions. The Revolution will not show you fix I'm mixing blong a bugle and leading the time by John Mitchell, General Abrams and spiral, and knew to eat hard mass confiscated from a Harlem Sanctuary. The Revolution will not be televised. The Revolution will not be brought to you by the shape of a war theater and will not start Atlee Woods and Steve McQueen or bullwinkle and Julio. The Revolution will not give your mouth sex appeals. The Revolution will not get rid of the NUB. The Revolution will not make you look five hounds. That are because the revolution will not be televised. Brother, there will be no pictures of you and when they made, pushing that shopping cart down the box on the dead run or trying to slide a color TV into a souln ambulance, and BC will not be able to predict the what I had a thirty two on the point from tone district. The Revolution will not be tellivised and my second eyes it's care ex one and again it's just a catalog of songs that I've influenced me. I couldn't choose one drop right, deep, the drop right, the drop right. I said this one out to my right here, man or men, the whole crew, real fair. We could count. Don't want pick up what. You're not watching me because actum, very silly you, but really won't like. But the act the wall with super sasoosing in the deeper car. I really don't give you walk all. I really need this. If we can't have trust and you can't take with us, we respond to those who showed respective respect. We respond. We can that couldn't sing that same intellect. My Man Nember, shifty bis quickly. You can't understand. We boys, we boys, we can stand on the corner where the act selling. Boy, it ain't about your friends. I hope it ain't about Mam my man Kj so, I love music. So tis yeah, and I've said it just kills me. I'm like, I'm really talk. So Best Song, my best hip hop song, is my stays, these other people of my neighborhood. So okay then, ready, go, ready, goop. Be Living kind of. So you're better, not, you're better slow or your might texting me people that my neighbor. These are the people that these are the people in my neighborhood. Let's take a walk through my wood. When that phrase it's all good, don't apply, but I wish you could. The thickness shit is real. Coming in a feel off the raw deal. See that Nigga running with the steal with. His name is Kak and back in the day he was to start running back pussy ran track. He could have been the next war to pay in Bo way in white him. Go and stick that lady up and star skating. They see that sister with the weed down the background, Espcilla, the TB Drinking Miller by the back. Her brother's name is June ball, puter slug in this fine right here. Now he goes a wheel kid. And there's Mrs Robinson, I you, that's my man mom. She makes slam beats to and that go joe slim, who wears a green Bram and drops of Green Cadillac with spare on the back. And that there's that WHO's a crack mania. Can put a gun to your head just to get his hand the bed. And then there's Baby Bay, come out every day and house shoot and rollers pushing the babies in this rollers they go pete, who be all in the books as in every class, never had a piece of ass. Then we got the twins. Who's robbed the same? Ben's got the same tends when he's in their parkt in the skins. He sweating because they know they got the double men and not the kind you true, but I think he kind of knew that' see the Parker much darker than the sister. That's because the mom's is a fucking snake.

Kiss nobody in the family's Ark except she and the ups man with the long delivery. Yes, he's the neighborhoods and Theerella. And when the Fella be walking, if you fella whole lot of shoppers in this cool feed, the soul dbe hit and off he heads, fresh home from up door GE as Mr Johnson, and that's missus Thompson. Both of them are married, but not to each other. Wipeop this, my love. Each Other would kisses, spiels, squeezes. Oh my sweet Jesus, these are the people from the get ready. Go and o the words the ghetto free Mama, that old much more spending looks. And so with my hood wind. No faults, something no good. I will do definitely tear is kyle. Thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah, definitely join US next time for a bonus teacher called making it on the margins, where I interviewed singer songwriting. I'm producing Mat coff. Well, on this last record. There's the song, the song make that change. I've had several friends who are dealing with substance abuse, and so that Song, yeah, was inspired by you know what, was inspired by by those trials and and specifically, I guess that's the most the most recent. There's nothing still. There's thinking. There's nothing like to take your mind off everything. It's nothing like feeling to help. please. It's looking like a cigarettes up. There's nothing like yesterday to take you away from your to you gotta make that change that it's gonna get. I gotta go. Sometimes it doesn't mean you, because starts, even if you take this step back, you gotta make that change to see a bright and day.

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