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Mouth-Off
Mouth-Off

Episode · 6 months ago

Mouth-Off BONUS episode part 2: Be Pure Be Vigilant Behave

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mouth-Off is a podcast for marginalised groups to get their stories heard. Previous episodes have covered a variety of topics from class divides, inequality, and gender, to mental health issues, disability, and religion. 

Last week, we released part 1 of a music themed BONUS mini-series called
Be Pure Be Vigilant Behave. It was about Welsh rock band, Manic Street Preachers - a band that we consider to be the ultimate band for marginalised issues. In part 2, Clary Saddler interviewed Leighton Evans - Senior Lecturer in Media Theory at Swansea University, Adam Scott-Glasspool – the co-host of the podcast series What is Music? and Emily Hyatt - the admin of the Facebook group Picturesque - James Dean Bradfield Adoration. In today's episode of Mouth-Off, we discuss the socio and cultural aspects of their body of
work, specifically in relation to Manic Street Preachers’ songs that have referenced class divides, disability, self-harm, substance abuse, gender, race, sexuality and religion. 

Credits: 

Podcast Artwork Photography – Martyn Simmonds 

Intro Music - music by Clary Saddler 

Dreaming a City - music by
Bradfield and Moore 

Judge Yr’self - lyrics by Edwards and Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

1985 - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and
Moore 

The Masses Against the Classes -
lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

A Design for Life - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Royal Correspondent - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Freedom of Speech won’t Feed my Children - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Natwest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds - lyrics by Edwards
and Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Anthem for a Lost Cause -
lyrics by Bradfield, music by Bradfield and Moore 

30 Year War - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and
Moore 

Golden Platitudes - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

All Surface, No Feeling -
lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Epicentre - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and
Moore 

My Little Empire - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Stay Beautiful - lyrics by Edwards and Wire, music by
Bradfield and Moore 

Australia - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and
Moore 

His Last Painting - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

I Live to Fall Asleep - lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

This Sullen Welsh Heart -
lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

People Give in - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and
Moore 

Hold me Like a Heaven- lyrics by Wire,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Born a Girl -
lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Black Dog on my Shoulder -
lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

La Trisessa Durera - lyrics by Edwards
and Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Virginia State Epileptic Colony -
lyrics by Edwards, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Love Bathes her in a Bath of Bleach -
lyrics by Edwards, music by Bradfield and Moore 

4 St 7lbs - lyrics by Edwards and Wire, music by
Bradfield and Moore 

Me and Stephen Hawking - lyrics by Edwards,
music by Bradfield and Moore 

Outro Music - music by Clary
Saddler 

Useful links: 

What is Music? Podcast Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-is-music-a-music-podcast-about-music/id1495393991 

Thus Sang Manic Street Preachers Philosophy Now Article Link by Leighton
Evans: https://philosophynow.org/issues/80/Thus_Sang_The_Manic_Street_Preachers 

Picturesque – James Dean Bradfield Adoration Facebook Group Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/957716347647200/media 

Follow us on Facebook @FMNproductionsUK

Follow us on Twitter @1_forget

Follow us on Instagram @forgetmenotclary

Like the episode? Leave us a review here https://bit.ly/Mouth-Off

Welcome to mouth or a podcast force andabout marginalized groups, we continuing our exploration of the bandmanintree creatures in part to this bonus, mini series entitled be Pure, bevigilant, behave on today's episode, I'll beinterviewing. Adam Scott Glass Pool Co host the podcast series, what is musicI'll of or be interviewing late in Evans Senior Lecture in Media Theory atSwans University and Emily Hyatt Manic Street preachers. Super Fan Hello. I'dlike to welcome you on to the podcast on to mouther. Thanks for coming so a little brief intro from me, we'vegot Adam Scott glass fall, who is the cow host of the watch? Is Music Podcast,a music podcast focus in on musical artists, entire discorea? So adifferent artists. Every season season, one focused on the body of wereof Manic Street preachers and was called: Do you Levis and it criticallyanalyzed the cultural impact of Manic Street creatures, body of work they'recurrently on season to which is called? Are you a muse and they are criticallyanalyzing? The history and cultural impact of the music of the Band Newsand we've also got with it as because I was listening earliertoday, so it's probably etched in my brain we've also got with US late inEvans. Senior lecture in Media Theory is that right, Roy that won university.My brother worked there in the at department for many years and also, asI mentioned earlier, the author of the Article Best Sang Manic Streetcreatures, which was featured in philosophy now magazine, is that right.It was yeah many years ago, but here still some very interesting and validpoints that you make in that essay. But we'll get to that. I dont to get aheadof myself. So that's a little brief intro from me. But how would youdescribe yourselves in a nut shell latent if you'd like to go first, couldbe just kind of what you're about what you do or you at just what makes youtick? Okay, WOW! Don't put me on the stop like okay, so I guess in the context of thisI'm a big man ex fan and I have been really since the early nine. So I thinkthe first sign I hear by the Manic I was what twelve years old as I be, I a slash in burn in some or onethousand nine hundred and ninety two. So when I have bought generation toHarris a couple of days later and we been listening ever since has twentyeight years right, you mentioned the article. I wrote I'llbe honest that article was thrown together in aday when I was working as fe lecture, just o like brisk top, and it was sort of end of Tom, and I didn'thave much anything better to do so. I decided to sit down and write somethingwhile I was doing my math does in philosophy at the time when I wasactually writing. I think, like I say, even eight thousand would here say onneed Chub at the time and at that point, when I was deeply buried in meter likethat, I kept on seeing me up popping up every way, especially when I waslistening to a mile porter, and most of that was the manic. So I sat down andwrote the very what I thought was quick article on it was the first thing I'veever had published. Although chronologically it wasn't because forsome reason, blaspeam that for three years and I didn't get published AlTwenty Ten, it was actually written in two thousand and seven. So it'sthirteen years old e and yeah it. I think it's the only thing I funny Imansone street preachers and a lot of my publications. I must have publishedforty fifty things over the years and they do pop up every now and again, but it's the only specific thing: I'vewritten on the manic sins. You know there is a fast literature on the manicthere as well, I'm quite happy that I've only got one tiny little dot onthe big fall of litigate, but s it's nice. I it's nice to have something outthere excellent and what about Yourself Adam? Nothing nearly is as impressive as anyof that. I just sort of chat with my mates about matther aches and we recordit that's about it. I suppose, by day I am like I'm a ateam leader at a small Bespoke Care Company, so I'm a sport worker wholooks after vulnerable adults and then by night I'm yeah. I do a podcast, sowe actually had a little bit of a rebrand. We used to be called. Do youlove us and it was a podcast entirely devoted to manistee preachers, but weran out of o Man Street preachers to...

...cover we did their whole discorea. Sowe are we now rebranded and we are now called what is music music podcastabout music and we're going through the Decorah of MES. We've just doneabsolution they're, one of our other hosts favorite bands to like a littlebit of a role reversal. There yeah it was nice revisiting those albums withyou in season one. I would probably say myself with MANICSTREET PREACHERS: they've always been a constantcomeallyes girl from a crummy little town called Crumblin, which is aboutfive miles up the road from Blackwood. I actually went to the same secondaryschool as the Manik Oakdale comprehensive, was about six or fiveyears after they'd left mind better right. You know until I found out about manicstreet preachers and again that would have been about ninety one. Ninety two,I was reading Smash It magazine as a twelve year old and then they with thisglamorous kind of sort of punks but really Glam rock metal. It was just mad mad lads from thevalleys and my music teachers spoke about them with pride, so I tracked down some of their music.I just made me chuckle that there, with these naughty punk wearing and slaggingoff, where they're from and I thought wow these guys are in the top thirty ortop forty. When I discovered them and to me that was like making it, Ithought if they can do it. This hope for me in this crummy little village, x, mining town- that's where my obsession started, soyou guys have been there since, like the beginning, like one Thune y hundredand ninety two, I only got into them in like it must have been two thousand andthree so of just after forever. DELATE had come out and I sort of heard themon compilation mini disc that my dad made embetement, yea and yeah. I just hear Iheard if you tolerate this, that's probably the first thing I heard bythem that that I was like conscious of when I went back. I recognized thingslike micyle emptiness and things like that. Yeah, I think for me it was you. Let usactually that's a cool way to start yeah. I went out and bought a boot leg. Itwas at a record far that used to come to black wore miners institute likeonce a year and had gone in there and I found Irushed in and I had like two pound pocket money. I found this boot legcassette of one of their Japan. Life shows, I think it was, and actually it was you know so easy. Theguns and roses cover the version. That's on forever, deleto, no, not forever delayed sorry and lipstick traces. That vision was on this, so it was thatGig and you love us was the first track was the first one I heard and they were right wow. I do love them a kind of instance. For me, I've justseen the emily's back in the room. So I'll just pause a second and Oh he youare. I I'm sorry, I'm really I'm sorry! I just I justwent down is working now, it's fine! So Emily we were just doingintroductions. I suppose we were just describing ourselves in the nutshell.Really. So actually I suppose I shouldn'tintroduce you to the podcast. This is Emily Hyatt, a manic street preachers,Super Fan, would you say or more James N Bradfield Super Fan a bit really James Steve a field is myI'm artistic and James is my special interest. I would say he's a pretty good special interest tohave. I could say, but yeah he's you know the manic. So my favoritebands anyway, so I'm pretty obsessed them to okay, and I discovered you, youfeatured on the what is music podcast back on season. One, do you love us,but the Manic Stout preaches? You were just talking about devotion and thenature of fandom and obsession, and that kind of thing- and you mentionedthe secret seven inch art work that you did for the manic track. How would youdescribe yourself? I mean that's what I know about you, but how would youdescribe yourself in a nut shell? It could be to do with the maniks oryourself as a person. Has the manic cos of tea that onlike a good afternoon yeah! That's pretty much it really!It's not at all. Sorry! I am bit blinds. I just a bitbroken off by all of the fuel earlier.

That's all right right, so I was actually about to move on toin general musical interest, just to kind of get an idea of the sort of things that you like,and that makes you tick so other than the Manic Street preaches. Could you name maybe two or two orthree musical ins influences that perhaps reach that same level of fandomand obsession for you or maybe they're? Not You like them, but they don't quitereach that so. For me, it would be like Tory a moss and Paul Mc Cartney andbeetles they're, probably up there with a manx for me, but the manic just clumped them Mannix have been a constant for me andI got into Toria and Paul McCartney solar career a little bit later on. Sowhat about you guys? Adam Yeah? That's such a difficult and densesort of sort of question. I kind of have that personality where I will get obsessed with with anythingnew that I find I think I'll want to like explore the the inside out of it. I am, are the absolute sort of topthere, my favorite band and then Prale Radio head and then and at that sort of third spotlike it just sort of rotates is like there's a lot of different artists oralways in that position. I guess I guess I good Nicca in the bad seats,wouldn't it cave in general, Nice, yeah, very good, all the national, that's cheating, I'm Goin, to cheat,I'm going to cheat they at this. For so what about you? Emily? It's my exes one radio head of mynumber two. They were my number one, I'm very obsessed with rather, but Iwas they were my specially interested plate right, so man ex radio had thenI've got tippery animals use. I really like arm as well garbage therapy, butit's mainly radio head, an the Maniks, okay and Latin. What about yourself?Glad you give you a chance of the thing yeah, I think in fans at the like. Yoube kind of a tar with them Pasca to be wore, and probably San Garden Mobe in others. I sort ofdecisive one. Super Channel could be another one talk at heads, maybe Ohyeah, talking at ll, be so ran rounds, but yeah I'd, say the man execomfortably number one in my kind of talking had as well. They go that'sfive! Ah that definitely at in there. So Emily we've all just been talkingabout a history with the manic when we first discovered them or got into themor the first song. We heard. What about you, can you remember what album it wasor what song it was or what the thing was that made them tick for you and what was your response to that songor album? It was actually an any meal anyway arc. I bought the enemy becauseI was into radio head and there was a manic article. It was a reprint in theclassic and I read it and that's like, and it was pictures of Nikita lookingvery glamorous, a very beautiful it was like wow. I need to hear something bythese guys, so I tak us up out TAV and he got she is to bred, I loved it and the Holy Bier followed and then go against the sole single follows,but not the album that I got gt and then by that time it was time for M.Everything was go, designed, live to come out, and what about I mean? Was ita positive response for every album instantly or whether some that you kind of wentyeah and listen to that, but PA's going to go away? Now, I'm not going to dustthat off for a while. Did you mean when I started off yeah yeah? You know, I suppose. Sometimes whenyou're listening retrospectively, you can sort of almost like binge theearlier albums, particularly if you got in them doing the Holy Bible Phase, soyou've bending them in like a short space of time- and I don't know- maybethey don't impact you in the same way I mean I remember, but luckily for me thefirst album I heard was generation terrorists. I think they were yeah.They were just about to release gold against the soul, so I kind of followedthem y. In a chronological order. You...

...know I was always waiting with batedbreath for the next album to come out and I wonder what it would have beenlike doing that and reverse really would. It have had the same impact if Ihad say gotten into them during the life blood period and then dingedeverything before that. Yeah not in me, I mean for me the whole vival wasinstantaneous. It was what had to square on it. Ye messed up thirteen year old, with no friends who didn't know whatwas doing on needed because which, should God d it You know, yeah has onewants to that now, as I'm older, but initially as a teenage at home. If Iwas incredible for me but, like you said, I went back with and I went tothe Goldite and singles God we it to sole thing, wos first, because I thinkmore of both car boot on vinyl and then I went to get as a result. The onlyBible still is usually my favorite album gat. I to be honest, I didn'treally get at the time at all and I've now. What do we relate? How to cratbravely appreciate it rely like it that ngt it's a bit heresy in Mai circles, butreally not my favorite. It's vaguely low down in my over. You KnowYe, but mine too, Emily Minto, but I feel like if I've been like yourself. Imay you know like that. First may have that love and that power there. Perhapswhat about you laten ordering yeah, but now it's it's a weird one with me, because I'llchange with mood very often with these things. So I think I agree with emily sort of only Bible is standards above not justthe rest of the manic, but pretty much evident. That was released in t s aswell. Yeah, really I'm kind of a modelist aboutfrom that, and I will turn through lots of different albums. It's probablyeasier for me to say you know, which ones don't go on my repeat list. Inever really took to life, but he actually resistance the street. I velistened to perhaps once maybe maybe not more than that, and some reason Idon't get on with postcards on man. You know somebody actually individualcats of it and the rest of them kind of go around and around as as life swirlsby me, and you know, and I'll get into one for a few months and carry onlistening. So manicle got a long Gavit like that with me, where you knowthings like perd twenty year years ago. I will still play a lot in a shortperiod of time. When I get back into them is not many, and I could evenremotely say that about living so they're important to me in that sense,be a I guess, it's totally Bible and and a hopeful bunch of others and Adam you've said you got into them. Ican't remember the song. You said you heard first now I heard if you told outthis first, but I got I got into them like at the perfect time because theyjust released the greatest hits like if they just released for everdelayed, like that's such a good time to get into a band, because you havethey've already sort of cherry picked that there sort of stand out, songs foryou and then and then yeah. I just started working my way back, like Ithink I started with everything must go and and the Holy Bible I think, to to verylike contrasting records I didn't get. This is my truth to me yours. I wasvery fond of gold against the soul, less like, like more so than I am now.I think yeah I had that whole like I got to. I got to like inhale them allat once. You know, which is quite nice. You get like a nice, the full range of the band at thatpoint, and then the first album that came out while I was a fan was waslifeblood. It's nice. It's you know like it's a little bit like bingewatching a net flix series, I suppose- and if you like the series, then that'sa great way to do it, but but on shuffle like yeah, what's like theseries three, then you watch series one and then do I just in a random order,so just to give a bit of background about the mouth off podcast. So I run acompany called for get me not productions and we are an inclusivearts organization, so largely working with marginalized groups, so that caninclude people with complex disabilities, the L GT Q plus communityworking class communities, Romany Gypsy...

...groups, people with mental healthissues, black minority ethnic groups. I mean: Where do you stop? The list goeson really. Would you describe, I mean for me. Iwanted to do something manage street preachers related because I'm a fan-and this was a natural progression, but I suppose I think of them as theultimate band for marginalized causes marginalized their shoes. Would you guys describe them in that?In that way, are there bands that can reach out andspeak to marginalized groups latent? You want to take this one first. Yes, I guess. As Ma as much as any sortof group of white musicians, white malemusicians can, I suppose you know you got to take tinto a kind as well, butyeah yeah. Definitely in this been consistently in the manic musicalcommitment to exploring you know some issues of you know social justiceissues regarding politics and class in particular, which you know marks themdown as a band not necessary. You know a times, you know who are vied. Youknow into sort of happily left wing politics as well, butwith a sense of inclusit within that I guess which is important. You knowthere are other musicians available. Is what I would say all so, but yeah? Ithink you raise an inch by her bene for me, inarticulate, given that you knowlike yourself carrying from a you know my enviado cold miner, and to curepeople from the steam in you know a similar kind of environment, a similarkind of background, be engaged in these topics and discussing the move in empathy and political scientiis, the was in coldand in terms of understanding these issues. For me, I think I and then youknow, I feel that they do have important contributions to make for andeven could act os point for me as a teenager, into sort of why the kind ofpolitical discourses that I wouldn't have had other wise, so yeah, I matchfens yeah there are in very important van. I don't think you know I do. Idon't know if I would say that the most important man, but you know they're,certainly important in terms of my personal context- yeah, okay, yeah. Iagree with a lot of that emily. What do you feel about that? I thought that wasa great answer. I mean I thought I said yes in many ways, but also so know in afew ways. It's like later said he the end of theday. It's for. Why is gus and crew, but they do very well with stout of whatthey've started with and by like. In said, there are a good gateway to allthe political mind. Sets that you may not have considered. I mean I grew up like multi cultural in quite a multicolor area, so I wasalready exposed to you know different political. Iideologies when I came Cotheal, but they certainly helped cement the those were politics I wanted almost just because they were delivering themso well and their songs and their speech. I think think, especially for me justrim, as a teenager and my personal, how we felt personally marginalized as athirteen year old who, couldn't you know, process anything or I'll did dealwith people which his lary particularly spoke a lot to me. You know there was asense that he was very marginalized and I Latin you know you. You can a on towhat you you can see. What's useful to you and that sort of lyric in otheres yeah, I mean I've generally yeahgenerally, yes, but like like and also said they're, notthe most important band politically yeah. Perhaps they were they probably weren't way back when,but they they were very important politically, but not so much an now. I suppose- and Idon't feel they to speak for me as much as they want did perhaps now I've agedand my politics and further revolts yeah, and I think you know there's also instances wherethey've perhaps they've been very well intentioned, but maybe it's come acrossa bit slightly cat candid within the lyrics, but we'll get to that so adam.What about you? Do you think or feel that they are a band that tacklemarginalized issues and reach Margina...

...lized groups? I think that they, I think that they do, but I don't thinkthat that is something that they kind of set out to do. I think that theydidn't start with that sort of raise on de tra, as as sort of we want to reachmarginalized groups, because I think that her ma was. We want to reacheverybody that sort of mask communication. We want to be thebiggest band in the world and I think what they also did, especially in theearly days, is take great pains to almost make themselves their own sortof community. It was very, it was very them against the world and I don'tthink like like early manx street preachers, Idon't think you could ever sort of accused them of being inclusive in anyway because they were so sort of like tied up into their own like beliefsystems, and it was very much a like. This is what we think fuck you I mean yeah and you could really, I suppose,sense, that they were disillusioned where they were from Tom and that they were trying to sort ofstand apart from it, and I feel that they've embraced their working classroots and their welshiness small. Now the Welsh flag certainly didn't comeout in older generation terrorist gigs, I'm pretty positive of that thatsomething that they've embraced as they become middle aged man with family. Youknow and James Move Back to Wales from London. It's a bit like me: I travelthe world. I couldn't wait to leave Wales. I moved to Hartfordshire firstto steady, for that was much better. I studied has traveled around a bit andthen I went traveling across the world and I was really happy to come back toWales. You know and settle here and I feel like that was their journey to adegree. I think that they do have a lot to say about like things like mentalhealth and body, Tis, more fear and eating disorders, but I think that alot of that is part of its by design. Part of is, asis also by accident. I mean that their primary lyric writer was somebody whowas personally going through a lot of those things, so it was kind of alwaysgoing to be a big part of what he wrote about, but I'm not sure if they kind of.I guess the answer is yes, but maybe they never intended to kind of reachout to those sort of marginalized issues. Marginalized groups, you know yeah well. That leads me on nicely tomy next point. Yes, so I guess I'm thinking about early maniks with theirvery clear manifestos, as you said, as against the world philosophies, and Isuppose they started with the manifesto that they, some of it may have come across asshouted angry slogans within their lyrics. Maybe not that well fought out.Emily you've said yourself that, as you've aged, maybe some of thoseideologies or or their politics have an age that well with you. Do you thinkthey stay true to their vision when they form that manifest o one thousandnine hundred and eighty six? So whenever it was eighty seven, are they still those boys of now men onthat mission or are they just kind of blowing in the wind? The thing is, Ialways found the mission a little ambiguous. I could never actuallyexactly pitting down what they were doing. I don't know if I stand alonewitness, but no absolutely not right. Yeah. Thank you. You know I just I could never actually pin downwhat they wanted and I just sort of saw a general direction, never an actual ABCD. Maybe that's myAutis, my law of lists, but you know if you would take the manifestso to be social left cleanings. Yes, they'remostly still doing that. If it's some form of activism, then some of them are doing that. So it tyou know if it's Yanger at the establishment- There's not a lot ofthat these days unless your insurance face book fed. So you know I don't sort of see that as much, but they I've agedand have aged. You know, although you know they still get a lot of your fans,which is amazing. I love that I was still excited to buy them. You knowreally excited by them in their politics. You ve gone off tangent. Thequestion I think those Richie lyrics are reallypotent, though, which is why they attract like young fans. We wererecording episode. We were talking to Simon Price and he basically was sayinglike there's always going to be thirteen year old goths, who, like areattracted to rich hes lerics, because...

...they do speak to kind of people whofeel out of place in society yeah. You know- and they can be very blunt and tothe point where, as Nickie's writing style can be very different, not thathe hasn't approached certain subjects in similar ways, but for the most partin many ways there is it a digest and reflect upon and may be easier for.A new fan like someone like my mother, for instance, to get into they're a bitmore vague, a bit more universal, whereas a song like if White America,now it's kind of no getting away from what a song like that is about yeah.The message is: Definitely changed the war time. The delivery of the meate ispanged all the time, and but that happens you know a any time. Do youknow, there's a maturity in the musicians. There's a different songright in dynamic, there's a different music musical dynamic about the groupand that's changed all the way across them being together. As the group is the manifest to any different. Now Iwould say yes, it is, and it inevitably is so and that's not just a reflectionof any changes in the group Olivet. That's you know this country isradically different to what it was. One thousand nine hundred and ighty see inother M, not going back. One thousand nine hundred and eighty seven night t aand politics in this country is, were adil different and the social astracanthat this country has changed and social conditions have changed, and thebands changes in reflection to that. You know what they. What they discuss in thelyrics has changed a the time as a reflection of that as well. So I, in terms of it depends what youthink that man Festas, I think in if you think of it more nables terms, asthis is a ban that is out there to express ideas to express a different form if you likeworking class consciousness over time, which they both embrace and turned awayfrom a different times, and they in the time that they've been together. Thenthere's a unifying thread about what you think about those gems. There is aunifying threat about what they do and I don't think that that overall, overarch can idea changes over the time too much okay. So I've already mentioned aboutmore briefly about well intentions that have maybe been handled a little bit,cack handedly by the manic. What appeals to me about them is theyare a provocative band and they're, not afraid of tackling to boo subjects. Imean may be more so in the early days, although I think some of the lateralbums have done so and ten so very successfully, but sometimes possibly it's been a bit of a. How shall I say awell intentioned failing I've been looking at a lot of theonline manic forums for ever delayed that sort of thing- and I did post posethis question to them. I was looking at the song little baby, nothing so justto put it out there little baby. Nothing is one of my favorite songs ofgeneration terrorist and I've always thought of it as a fantastic feministanthem, and I think, as a woman, I'm allowed tosay yeah these four white males who are in their early Tis at the time or notonly did they tackle the taboo topic, but I think so. I think they did sovery well, but it did put this question on one ofthe Manic Street wretches forums. I think it was on forever delay, maybe ona few of them actually, and the question was: how successful was thator any other feminist anthem or songs that have attempted to discuss genderissues? So I've got some comments here. This is from Brian mackey. He thinksthat little baby, nothing is a naive young, mannix lyric. He thinks it hasan aged. Well is very cringe worthy to listen to now, he says mainly, isbecause it's written by a man Richie and it's based on what he calls apreconceived idea about a specific woman, Tracy Lords and how a life mustbe. I disagree with that because it wasn't even a ten intended for TracyLords and I don't think the song was intended as a critique on you know. Women working in the PornIndustry, HMM was fools fuck highly right. They wanted Kiley yeah exactlywhich gives it a completely different VIBE, but I wasn't a furrily. I believeit was only yeah, I think yeah. It was pretty much a fit. Fifty Co lyricwasn't it. He said harmless intentions, but a super cack handid attempt atbeing right on and apparently he's read...

...that Tracy Lords hates the song. Now,I'm pretty sure I've seen in an interview that she speaks very highlyof the song yeah and of her encounter with managing preachers. You know someone. I know s recently mether and got head to sign a little baby, nothing and she was like who, on this I'll, just read a few more. I mean someof them are positive, but a lot of them do take that stance. So this is hidvinecane and she says I second, that that little baby laughing is not great,although she does recognize that it was made with good intentions. Craig James thinks that it's one of thebest songs ever written. He was all for it, but he does say, but then again I'ma bloke. So what do I know, which I disagree with? I think you canbe a bloke and have an opinion on on that song and on that subject matter. Catherine Westernbow, theirinterrogation of traditional white masculinity, rather than trying tospeak from a feminine perspective, is their most important approach. They've done multiple albums withmultiple songs that attempt this and she thinks that sharp selfreflexivity is priceless. So you know it's not all negative, afew of them again saying about it being a bit cack candid Victoria Williams.Chewink says she loves it and she thinks it's a great feminist song. I mean there's loads on there. That gush is awful on here, a scathingreview. I don't find little baby, nothing to befeminist at all. This is by Alan Keith. It's very much anti sex work while asSpousi this patronizing idea from a man's perspective, it's a perspectiveof a woman worker being a sex worker being exploited and enslaved. He says I am I'm aware that Tracy Lordswas an underage girl when she performed in these adult films, but as far as I'maware, the song wasn't written with her in mind. He thinks feminism in today's sort ofsociety that it's by and large pro sex work in no sure I agree with thatcompletely in that it allows people to have the opportunities to use theirbodies as they see fit, and if it's consensual for all involved,you know, then it's fine again, I'm not sure. I completely agree with that. He doesn't think little baby. Nothinghas aged particularly well because of the reasons Licette, but he doesdescribe it as a bang in tune. Ayah, just read one more here. This is HanaStewart. She says little baby. Nothing is a feminist song in inverted commers,but you can totally tell that it's written by four sheltered white men andlet me clarify- I hate the song for this. For this reason, then she says ona slightly unrelated topic, which Edwards had a deeply problematic viewof women in general, it's hard to look at anything from his time in the bandand view it, as some huge feminist statement amiss is why it taints herview. She goes on to say I know it's the parting line to state that simplywhich he was a genius in all things, but she believes that he was a ragingmass agenst and she wants this to be addressed more openly and honestly whenaddress in the band's history, because she feels like it's always swept underthe rug so again in a pretty Hash Review. Hmm, I suppose my reaction to that isthat it is. It is not just a richly IC, it's a it's a CO lyric with with Nikkiwho goes on too later in their career right, possibly one of the the more sensitive songs by a rock bandabout gender identity. In born ago yeah, I'm I'm onto turn into this theme right,but it babe. Nothing comes on one thousand nine hundred and ninety onewhere gender relations are completely different, where actually the veryconcept of feminism is a completely different things. What it is today, weare in the different within a totally different wave of feminism and toanalyze that song through the lens of Feminism, as it exists, they actuallybrings up dicotomy, which those responses do now that common about sortof contemporary feminism being pro sex...

...works is absolutely insane were there. There are strands ofcontemporary feminism, which do take a positive vein of sex. It is not by no means themajority of people involved in Feminist Tor, do in deep feminists today whotake that position, but some do and it's an argument which has been movedout over the time. It's an argument that didn't really exist: Nine thousandnine hundred and ninety one. You know it's a position in feminism that didn'tlarge the exist in one thousand nine hundred and ninety one and the songlittle be nothing just to address that pint of a rich being a rag in Masagan,right that that, for me misconstrues, I know I'm a man to find in in my and herright, but for me that misconstrues, some of the positioning andsubjectivity that goes on in his sins, the stones are missage Genis tic interms of what they are describing, but the position of of the song writer andthe subject position where asked to take in the songs is a very often thatthe victor. It is an attempt at some kind of empathy within the songs,rather than an attempt to you know if Richie was righting, you know, lyricsaying you know it's fine to be an exploited sex with you know I don'thave to just look a little baby, not in E. perhaps look at yes of the Ol bepoling for lible, which is even very example of this. That will be different,but he's he's not asking us to take a subject. Position of an abuser is agoing as to try and understand the context by which a sex workers areabused by of capitalism and by society at large within the context of thesesongs is asking us to think about them rather than challenge. As you know, youknow it's almost soit. It's like a misreading, a polly byNEVAA. Like you know, you read, you know you're listening to it as if youwant to beat up women, you know he's got you know, that's wasn't cabansintention at all when he was right on the song and I don't think in terms ofintentionality what they were trying to achieve in those songs. It's rightdifferent, but to analyze into the lens of contemporary culture. Today isalways problematic. I mean my favorite comedian. All of all time is bill.Hicks and Bill Hicks just would not make it today. You know you listen tohis material now and you think. No, you couldn't say that today it would notwork of. If you cannot get you couldn't do that kind of thing, because it's thecontext in which those songs were both written and performed and intended fora particular audience at that time, which is so important, I think thosekind of critices. I don't want to leave all these people on face book. You knowa sort of naive millennial or anything like that. There's could be my age, itcould be older, but it leads to me as if we're missing some of the wider, noimplications of why they were engaging thothe topics of those times, and theycan see the change over time with how the manic deal with issues like generalrelations in society and so on. As these things change. Historically, wesee a reflection and we see a change in how you know we certain Nicki dealswere in a different way to riche, but actually nickie began, then in adifferent way to Nanty as well. All the time you know and that dynamic is veryimportant across you know any artist with the longevity of the manisteepreachers to trace that kind of change is really important because it givesyou an understanding of how they understand the world around them justas much as how you know they be in the chin. I also think that that some of what we've just heard like inthe in the comments comes from just a basic misread of the lyrics, where, inthe same way that people you know certain sections of the fan base old,would misread a design for life. You know we don't talk about love. We justwant to get drunk like completely missing the irony of that statement, completely forgetting about the context.I've never like I've, never considered little pipy,nothing as anything other than an anti abuse song. You know I mean likethere's no way that Richie is advocating for that kind of treatment of women. I don't think- andI think that's also something I think he also in his lyric rating- and hedoes it a few times on the Holy Bible. He just likes to present ideas and thenlet the listener sort of sess it out for themselves, and I think those canbe misinterpreted as well intentioned failings. The first one that comes to mind is ourCIS of pain, which seems to be pro capital punishment or bore P. CPIT isanti like anti political correctness on theface of it, but actually I think what he's doing is as a lyric right he's,throwing up ideas to explore. Rather than saying this is how I think peopleshould feel about somethinge. You know...

...and he's a master of that, which is why well one of the things I most respectabout riches lyrics, it does get you thinking about whichside of the coin do I fall on and it does get you considering all of theperspectives just say, but basically I agree with the way he some trained andits point in time. I also agree with how it's really been the point of hervictim and that richly often placed himself in the point of view of victimyou not for our is writing career. He has done that as is linking for, but Ido think we do need to acknowledge which we did have a problematicrelationship with lots of women. That possibly is where some of this has comefrom. You know he has got quite a problematic background. You know forsomeone who he's quite a good feminist he's often hasn't been in his personalor life, taking it as lyrics alone great, but shaping it with commentslike his relative complex the fact that he has used prostitutes himself, you know I'm not a completely gettingrid of all the blood he's done here. I'm just saying it needs acknowledge itin the county. You know in the context of that SOT that actually it isproblematic yeah. I suppose it comes down to how much you can separate theart from the artist. Isn't it definitely I'm not. You know I'm notcompletely decrying or anything like that, but especially fandom, that there is atendency. I'm not saying you guys as I do, because you totally not you've beencritical. There is, you know, a tendency to go towards sat rich, and Ijust some of these criticism, particularlyfrom the women, perhaps go in the point of view of what they've read and knownabout it. Mother, don't one, but I m yeah I mean when I researched thisparticular point. I looked over some old richi interviews and articles thefound online, many of which I mean you only got a minute or two in the video clip snipits here and there, but he's quite open about you know like the sleeping with theprostitutes, and the group is it's just not like these things are being writtenafter his disappearance he's been very open about sleeping with a differentgroup. I every night and hiring. You know prostitutes, I think, there's anelement of self discussed there and I almost feel that feeds into it like himand Nickie writing from this female perspective, but also has the perpetrators of thisexploitation. At points that themselves, I think it gives the song and themessage a little bit more fell and yeah. I suppose I'm the same as youguys really. I've always seen that as a good attempt and a good example of themtrying to tackle an issue like that and to take on a different perspective. It is also just like you know a hotbanger. It's so good year mean and also if it was horrendously problematic. Idon't think a fantastic incredible feminist, like the younkers, with go onthe stage and built it out of them exactly. You know and I'm a big KalianOak Fan, and I know she sang it with them. I think in about ninety sevenback when they were collaborating on the impossible princess songs. I think yeah, there's a yout clipfloating around of her Sinimon at the shepherd's Bush Empire and she's gotthis like short sort of cropped, hair and the INDEFESSA. She speaks veryfondly of them and that Song- and I think she said, since you know I thinkI read it in the Simon Price Interview- actually- that that she'd love to singit with them again and work with them again. That makes volumes to me if Kiley saysit's: Okay, the Hen, he let's be: Okay, Yeh! So are there any other examples Imean we might be able to go on and on and on, but you personally can you think of times that they'veattempted something, and maybe it's not quite come off as it's intended asthey'd intended Symm fease. I just, I think, that's just a failure of a lyricreally. It feels like a cop out to me the idea of kind of taking this very,very interesting, but also very tragic, very tragic story and then writing asong about writing a song about it and in that Song, saying that you haven'treally thought about how you're going to write this song. You know that thatfeels like a bit of a cop out. That's not really a song, it's it's halfway toa song. He needs to finish. Writing...

...that song may sort it out, Nicki, don'tbe Lazy Y A I love the tone of it. I think it'sreally interesting. Like musically, I just I think that is a that's one ofNikki Klaners lyric wise for me. I suppose he did try and make up for thatwith Liverpool revisited whether that was a success for me, that's just as ham fisted. Forme, if in Istius wonderful, I love this yeah. I suppose that they're in thesort of very like you know that that album to me is avery sentimental, album, they're being very outwardly sentimental in a waythat the manie preaches aren't a lot of the time, and that personally makes mevery uncomfortable. Yalan Echo that I think is Pym is not a great song really, but I think the one thing that sticks outfor me or things that they tried and didn't come off, one which theydistanced themselves in the past with is sort of the entire background to the album know your enemy, which is kind of motivated by thisSunegiri e of Cuba and Cuban politics. In some way-and of course you know they went and played in Cuba and I just go seen theclips an Tanico and so on and kind of admit on late to songs that you know kind of singing about an ideology and akind of a political system. Of that I never really believed in which is interesting at the time now. Iwas a big fan of the album at the time and it resonated the lot personallywith me at the time, because things are ever happen in my life I listen todeath to the now were enny. I know a lot of panic Hans at the time didn'tlike it at all, and you know it had a difficult sort of impact, but the sortof that sort of embrace of les to be fair. You know coming to Arian politics on that albumin two thousand and one was two fingers up to the United States,because the two album is broke big in your up in the UK, didn't may git overthere, and so they now it was kind of a typical nicky move to say right. I'mgoing to wrap myself in the kingdom side next into Si SCEU to America, butit was this also really really problematic for them in the future. Ithink that you know they did the kind of just wound away from it. You neversaw a Veree kind of pitial stance game in any of the, so I put that on as adeath and it sort of they went somewhere and didn't go there again. There was also a sort of a bit halfhearted. We had. We had Stephen Le Nation, our podcast, and he wrote abook called riff on meaning, which is a book about now your enemy, and he made the very the very salient pointthat they made the big deal of sort of like this anti capitalist politicalstance and went to play in Cuba and then sold the vd of it. So so it was just. It was just a bigsort of capitalist event. Anyway, with selling you know, I tacots with theCuban flag on them for like, like you know, when you do okay, Iyah, I think for me, that is a bonacontention as well, but then you know they're nothing if not a pan full ofhypocrisy. Oh, I love how confusing they are like. I, actually I never knowwhat side of the argument they're going to be on. It's exhilarating thinkingabout. Well, we've talked a lot about yourinitial responses to them and there may be songs or albums that are resonatedwith you. What do you think they represent younow at this point in time, I'm guessing they still have meaning to you, becauseyou've agreed to come on here and chat to me about them. But what do theyactually mean to you? Are they still relevant, or are you thinking kind ofwith resistances future? You sort of think you know come on lads, but then,of course, you know, we've got that corker that James Dean Bradfieldreleased last summer, even in exile, which Patrick Jones is coming on tochat about soon. If that was a man ex album, I think that would be fair. For me, I've listened to it onrepeat recently, and maybe maybe it's new songs,something that different that's got me excited, but I think it woulddefinitely be up there with my favorite one of my favorite sofa. I think Ithink, there's definitely something very special about even an exile. Justjust the idea of you know a top turn album about the life and death ofVictor Hara is very exciting II. Think...

...that's something that the mailpreachers are always going to offer, whether that's relevant to generalmusic fans. Maybe not you know a big. A big part of our podcast is sort ofanalyzing these lyrics and then realizing that maybe eighty percent ofthe people that listen to them on having that meaning sort of filterthrough to them and are, at the end of the day, listening to very effective,very well produced pop songs. So are they still relevant they'restill relevant? To me, part of the reason for doing thepodcast been through their entire decorah was that I had fallen out oflove with them. A little bit sort of between futurology and resistance is futile.Resistance is free till as the first tour in the years that I didn't didn't,go see them on and I kind of felt that they had become a bit of a legacy act,especially when they started then touring the Holy Bible in full. Theneverything was going full. Then this is my truth in full and then really sonsend away the Tigers after ten years. I started to feel as though they hadsort of begun to trade on past glories going through the albums now, there's so much interesting, relevant cool stuff going on across their wholediscorporate. Just a case of is that getting through to sort of the generallistener did it ever yeah? I didn't low yeah. We kind offorget that between n six to the early two and they were made, each a band inthe UK don't know very highly sign bad singles doing extremely well and thecharge, but that will be a lot of people's impression of the managepreachers will be framed in that period as well. I think there's there's somassive relevance to me simply because you know they're a welsh, bad and that's meltingifory thin any ways you know an at it. You know my accent is a bit of a giveaway of it, and you know the way I after every sentence is even bigger. Ioirson your not a place to wild and you know, and to members of the band atToni University. Now I went to on to university. I work it one university.You know I teach political theory that tons ouniversity. You know, which is what the guys study you know that they're huge personalrelevance to me as somebody like Tantivies, very strongly with them, and you know the music and the back out alot O Bertine. I think Adam makes a very, very good point that you can findme once I'm certain to you in the music. Even if you've heard it thousands oftimes before you know you can still or it can provoke. As you were sayingthere, you can, you know the provocative element solve it, which can actuallyprovoke years afterwards from when you first hear it Al. It often depends onwhat you bring to listening to the manic which brings out new elements he,which is why I think that you know I'd like to think I still developers ofhuman being. It's probably really limited at this point, but you know I'dlike to think is to develop my read, and you know I read different theoryand I you know, I understand the world in different ways all the time the manic Amala in that sense as well.You know there are nuances in the manic music that you know I can bring to themwith my eye listening to it and that they bring with what their forming aswell, which gives them a debt which most families of their stature. Don'tthink don't have all you know and the long cere teachers have an adds to thatthat so the Times as debts and breaths, and I think they still are very, very relevant if only because there's a Lapine incontemporary m music for bands like the manic, you know we, but there are asmany bands out that even at the time you know, even in the s and two andthere weren't many pans over there like the manic, they were pitch involvedwith a lot of bands, but a lot O man's women doing what they were trying to do,and there are very there are few were now. I think that's that's important if theystill stand for something and they still produce something which, eveneven though I'm not particularly interested in something like resistance,is Teofil. Listen to it Eronte. You know, I don't listen to most things, soyou know you know it still there s. You know, you know there is listening to bedone, yeah. What about you emily? I mean. Do they still represent somethingto you? Yeah, obviously, they've still got meaning nostalgia is well up in it.Some of the what late and said you know the in the nines. They meant certainthings o. You know the Holy Bible will...

...always mean certain things to me as some guy in a tract so designed forlife me certain things to him in a stadium. You know back one Hund, nineundred and ninety six, so you know they've, gotten and they've lasted allalong and they've had that sort of enduring quality, but they managed toattract new fans, which is somewhat not quite a rarity for nine bands. I meanit does happen, Radio head, obviously, that the manic still despite theirsales, going down that he gives getting smaller, that they're still getting alot of really politically active teams. You know I'm doing a lot of that. Ilove that fantastic who are really engaging in the back catalogue andstill loving all the car and stuff I mean for me personally. They they sort of that they've been part of my almost myrebirth after my breakdown, and they give me not so much a sort of reason. You knowthat sounds ridiculous, thesa plenty of reasons to live, but they're one of the live show, particularly for thoseyou know those sort of points I have in the future that I can look to where Iknow I'm going to get a fantastic show because, as a live act to theirbrilliance, the consistently good I mean I would all be radio head of theheight or better, but and sometimes moved. Where is it Tamati he's very red,get crack Gig, because James is a professional and he's a showman. Sothat's also very relevant to you know I've seen a few ninety an trot out innostalgia. You know I feel sleeper last year and it's not not criticize a sleep or anything, butyou know they. They don't seem as today in relevant as the maliks to yeah bias to because the makes havekept updating themselves instead of recycling. You know sleep as a badexample. They probably don't like ten outans. I don't know about, but I'mjust saying that's the impression I got so yes, they are still very relevant tome, and you know then James, producing this, this, this wonderful, album, thePatrie PRETII, would treat an yeah that reminds me even more the why I got intothe what I stand for Fab. Thank you. So I asked you guys tothink about. I guess you're, not necessarily your top ten favoritemanic tracks, but you each picked an area may be looking at a marginalized topicor theme could have been mental health orreligion or disabilities, gender class inequality. So latent would you like togo first? Maybe if you could just announce your topic, your area that youlooked at and why you've chosen the songs, because when you go in touch with me, I was thinking about that article. Iwrote at the time, so I've included the sort of songs which e talked about inthe articles of judge ses, one thousand nine hundred and eighty five, a dmasses against the classes e t. They were relevant to discussing theinfluence of nature on both of the rice making process, and you know, judge yourself is you knowthe course is basically in each other is basically you just need to itself.You get that wonderful lie on thousand nine hundred and eighty five, but ifGod is day, like me just said, we need to get into the meaning of I whatNedure meant by Got Dad. So you have to...

...infer that for yourself, which I likeabout the MACs when they doing things like that, because they do leave it upto you if you want to it like an Ol going book. If you want to learn moreabout that neen the masses against the classes as well, I mean it's not reallyan eatin song or dot. I do like some of the way that song is put together interms of having each a might think about battle. Of course it's got nochange the beginning of it as well, and I think yes go line from out the cameoat the end, so it's kind of in fumed with philosophical, as Massoud on theprinciple, and I was I think where I went after that really what I waslooking at after that was songs related to issues around class.

I think the thing for life I mean Idan't picked up on it earlier about the irony he design for life. I think there's timefor life is a powerful statement not just of class relations but also, very importantly, it's rooted in an the black wood type experience. Youknow then Oshu know like Ye. Think IV as power and worth me is free. Thoseare generalized stateness, but they are rooted in a community where they youhad like now, the miners institute and Minors, library and so providingfacilities for people to leave the working class license if they so choseto do through efforts, you know, is Rita's a I'm still going from. Roy Correspondentis obviously spit in the place as world family, which is great and sue plant inthe British press, which you know, is an important commentary on the class structure ofthe media, and it's not the surprise, is of nil iour enemy as well. You cansee that for inforce of the old Wien sort of political statement, I knowyour enemy of that we wil speechment, my children O t samealbum has similar survive, not west part is Midlands, lowise is the bestsong about banks have written,...

...especially the as one bank in hatedoesn't exist that any more. That really takes me remembering I I ko and coin for a lost course be few ofwar and golden pactions latter albums, and I think you know in all of these sort of from seven downwards, to have avery sharp reading of the changing dynamics of class in theUK and Dean Wales in particular. Yes, a Ly missage the invading O, but the clanein ask you toremember. I can ask you for a ton, so it seems every song to is just one lastchance how in the CITIN inflection from twothousand and eight and the Global Plancha crash of two thousand and eight,as well as some very interesting work, that they produce a around sortof economics and politics and New Liberalism to a so. You foamit shows you know an ongoing desireto be politically aware, economically...

...aware and acutely aware of how thesethings inflect every day life, and so I think, Thosso. The reason I chose tothey still have that on going so commencin t o t h e got to de ya to ever potitus just to leave rintherout the a what I otha's a strong top ten yeah yeah. Ijust realize that I've bulls this up quite severely, but well will blow them.Okay, we like to go next or would you likesome thinking time to try, and so I mean like mine was like I think Icame back to you and said: okay. Well, you know I work in mental health andI've struggled with my own mental healthissue. So I'll kind of do songs that are about mental health, but theproblem with that is that that is such a personal topic and like, and everyoneresponds to those sort of things differently said what I've actually gotis ten songs that make me feel like it's okay to be sad sometimes, which is,I think, is not really what you or what you were looking for, but Ialso made it slightly harder on myself by not allowing any Richie lyrics inthere. I think so. Emily you're, like this no surfaceor feeling Baris posse the watch of my see me now. I will ogize you. We knew the one it makes me angry,a a but AWA's the a a maybe you Richa,...

...because that is such an upliftinglymelancholy song, the idea of something being not apparent on the surface of a personbut being completely internalized. I think it's a very powerful thought andimage, and that's just in the title at Pi Center from no your enemy, we itha kind of the idea of of like searching, get going deeper anddeeper into darkness. I'm cribbing from interview we did with with Michael Shane, and he was talkingabout going into dark places to find something shiny, even though it'spotentially harmful. I think P center has a lot of that. That sort of makesme respond to sort of mental health issues. My Empire from this is my truth.Just for that just for the line I'm happy being sad and and that the wholetone of that song is so is so melancholy, but also very gentle. I it's good as it is to it to make sound. I I E, I forgot, stay beautiful, so I think that's theonly richly written lyric in my in my ten.

I because I've always read that song asbeing like, you have to accept your failures andyou have to embrace who you are no matter, how kind of difficult that is,Australia, because I think anybody who's had. You know any kind ofstruggle with mental health understands that feeling of just wanting to get asfar away from something as possible, which, as my co host on the podcast Stevepointed out, is actually not Australia, its New Zealand. If you live in Wales, his last painting from New Year enemy, but nothing oineos, not my more, don't think the truth it has. That line. I feel like I'velost myself to everybody and everything else. That's a very potent sort of avery vocative image from life bloods. I live to fall asleep N, because it's a beautiful sort ofhaunting song, maybe has one of James's best vocal, takes I to go as it's one of my stupid, neverwant to drink it in full. Transparito...

...fall asleep. With an read m skin, sotanksgiving I went to up to Kewen. Did you become a love? Is An friends everyone loved you to Readin to a when? Did she become a nother Jus, thefriend everyone loved? You see waited to be I I? How did you think Otan? I think thatthat is one of the one of their best depictions of depression, the idea ofliving to fall asleep and wanting to be in a place where you don't even dream.It's just sort of this state of nothingness this Sullen Welsh Hart fromfrom rewind the film. I don't want my children, you grow up like me, it's doso destroy Ye. It's a mocking deals days. I wake up with left still alive.I want to go to sleep, but I can o close my I can close my pike. I can't find this war any more time.You surrender time so line up the firing squads kiss o byto what you want go with the fog o home. You can keep on striving on your own when you a long this on well Shtole, it won't give up a the bee. The battle easily, the there's a couple of lines on that song.That I think are some of the best that nick is ever written. The act of creation saves us fromdespair. I think is really beautiful, says a lot about depression and kind of you know some of the ways you canbattle yourself out of it, and also I don't want my children to grow up likeme, is another very evocative line and thenwere they like. I don't really rate resistance is futile. All that highlyon my like ranking of Manic sons, but I've got two from it, which is peoplegive in people, get tired people. A people get got people a people get there is the Fey of every thing,...

...people's es or because I think that's a great sort oflike defiant anthem about not giving in to giving in you know, I mean it a anodd sentence and hold me like a heaven. What word be a dividing line? I dance round the s side. I hate the world o an IT myself. I can't pretend that I fanfinet slideron by diomatic class ravage time ever really watch all lie. We just steep fancy good by because I love that song and it's gotsome some lyrics that I think like touchedme personally. I, like I, walk between the dividing lines. I dance around theexit signs and I hate the world more than I hate myself. That is such thatsuch a manic melancholic sort of line, so I've sort of it's a bit of a cop out,because I can't tell you that those songs are definitely about mentalhealth and depression but, like I said like stuff like that, hits people invery different ways and those are ten songs that hit me in that sort ofspecific way. Yeah. It's interesting, I probably feel similar to you and thatit's not that I don't rate distances future. It's just not upthere for me as one of my faiths. However, when I was going through itthe other day that, like the first five or six tracks were great, you knowreally brilliant, and I think you said on your podcast last season. The AMANICdo ten to front load their albums and there's a few there's a few bangers atthe end as well and again, there's very few. I dislike in fact the I think,there's any that I actively dislike. I just don't respond as strongly to thealbum didn't y know what it is for me. I think it's that they're, not makingany sort of strong cohesive statement on resistance is futile. For me, it's acollection of decent songs and some very good songs like I loveinternational, blue and home like a heaven, but there's no, it doesn't feel likeone of their most cursive pieces of work. I suppose okay, so last but notleast, then emily. When we last spoke about this, you had six songs in mind.I think. Did you manage to sort out your last for and do you want to justshare with us? What area you were looking at? What stands you were comingfrom? I thought well because I'm artistic and I miss things and I alwaysassume everything structure. I thought I got disability and L GT to lot to look at so I sort of did it so approaching that, but there's not really I've not reallylook at Lerg team much, I mean more with tea with a born, a girl o...

...you, I love is on time somethin Goin my face an a and I wish t of war. I am Yes a way. O S M This mass, a man is a lot of listeners will well no of atleast just a beautiful song. I mean it hassort of Split Manic fans in a way a most DIS pupleseem to love it. Some and some trans people just think it's written for themand find it very beautiful. These are all comments. I've got on my forum orat my Youtte Os, but there are some tinds of people who find it very, verydifficult to listen to and the summer we find it almosthypocritical because Nickie's not actually trans, I mean, I suppose, he'smore gender queer, but I the would himself so I'm not wont to Labor them but yeah. He was basically just talkingabout how Ted to be a girl born girl. It was just very pretty. I love that song and I think, as a member of the lgscommunity. However, many letters with a god editor now an I shure, an the yeah I sort of did that. There's notreally a song that tackles l, GT issues, a search, but I guess, born a girl isthe closest. But then I think, as latent said earlier, there are a lot ofsongs that are inclusive in their age in their nature that speak to the many,regardless of whether you identify as gay or trans. What I am trying to get from some of mymusician friends that are trans is their viewpoints because on the foreverdelayed forums and the various other forums, ave been on. There's a lot oflove and a lot of positive points for bornage, but a lot of hate as well, and a few comments that sort of saidthat Nickie is sort of, I don't know trying to say that being awoman is easy or easier in other. We have it easier. That was an initial criticism that hewas very early on and his response was that he wasn't in a actually written itdown. I'm not saying I want to set a sex change or anything just excitement,something else, but this is barreras ing in general,men or crack or women are good yeah. I just like I s like one. Sometimes youknow he also acknowledged that you know not everything's Real peches, a womanand that's not what I meant and James is also defended, yeah him on the wit.You Know James, the masculine and seeing the reached lovely song aboutJesse as a lady, but I can totally say what we know, howit could be: Cobertas, yeah and, of course, James- that I don't think he'sSung. It live very many times at all, although I did catch the late. I don'tknow if you caught the card if Castle Gig the anniversary, Tor o two thousandand nineteen, where they played no yea, the anniversary of you know legacy torof the ones you don't like Adam, but theyplayed. This is my truth from start to finish, a man laties...

...yeah. It was very lovely like a Jellia,really well just him and Nice. To this I mean the other stuff. I look that waswas well mostly just about lity stuff because O my field, if I had a field,that's what my education in education so ye the list was black dog is back to on my shot liking. My neck, an seeing she's myfriend, so I yes, my life is compromise. I akoitis to m. It looks at depression so openly and soin such a raw way and there's a massive reaction I found when I was on the TOR. As Imentioned the reaction to it every night therewas always someone either crying or dancing or losing themselves, because so I mean I find it almost abit too blatant it. So you know, if he's rein, it so openly, but yeah. That's a good one! Mate stiffer it's about aging descent into povertyand the almost sort of throwing way of elderly people spent some time working care homesrecently and you sort of see it where the W no one visit sent peoplesort all left of their their own device. Tas, and I felt like that was exploringthat part of it a little bit and the sort of invisibility almost about to leavepeople and become disabled. You know we would out once a year, send it offsouvenir yeah. I love that line yeah, it's fantastic! I O T remembering things mostly. I didn't really then go intosong. I just sort of went on journal plague of us because to me that's richwise. That is some of his best stuff mental health, wise and inability wise. It's. You know very theological albumas well, of course, but it's as lot of mental health, vulnerability,disability, it just sort of there's a lot of songs. Written fromthe point of view, is the vulnerable adult or, as with little weaving,nothing trying to put himself into that...

...person. It does sort of sometimes develop intodisability of Tragedy Trot, but I'm not in the holy does pretty well,especially as if you look at the how disability was sort of conveying themedia in the you know, O this or early early s when he was writing this a lotof it's very innovative, particularly my favorite song on thereis vs he stay up. I molony O. I seem to literally talk about histime when he was on award people going to grave problems,and it was. It ran me very much of when mymother was section, but it ofs and the fact that there wasalso hand of or therapy or something going on. You know clean cooking flowerarranging yeah. It also very much has polititian for the learning disabilityfield. So today the doctors allow the allusionof choice. You don't only get that in a mentalhealth. I in YOU AL to get an learn, difficulty setting in which I worked it.Where you've got your choice. We were nowgiving popolins is a choice to do things, but actually, if you look atthe choice you can choose to do at or you can choose to do music, you can'tchoose to say not get up in the morning, so it's all look a lack able tone ofautonomy and which he sort of Said disolves kindof liberation. So I'm not sure if he was thinking about held in that T. I mayou think about. It also got beater in a bath of bleach the point of view of someone incrediblyvulnerable, possibly in a destructive relationship which is vastly impactingon the mental health. There's a dependency to vulnerabilityand I sort of need to be loved, which is something which he's you know hascap a few times, but well, but a few times he want of love, but also notquite sure how to process or accept that love. I totally get that and sortof rejected and its sort of back to Latreia with the with Brussa. No oneelse will you know that that reminds me of the care homes that you know some ofthe cares didn't brush someone's hair. I just wouldn't happen and again thealmost visibility I used to I used to work within the field ofreminiscence theater, so I would take a reminiscence theatrical showinto nursing homes and residential homes. In my early Tis, first JohnFirst job out of drama school in her might be in a looking at an era likethe s or the s or the S, and then we throw lose of things in to act as amemory trigger like objects, songs, dance fads and that sort of thing I'mone of the most shocking things to me-...

...is whenever went into private run home.So things like Booper, the care there was significantly worsethan in your sort of state, run local and it Jes nursinghomes and the one thing that struck me was well. One of the care stuff wasmoving a woman from her room into the dining room where we were doing theshow and kind of, but the woman was distressed, didn't want to watch so shelet the chair go and this check carried on roaming like towards the wall. The woman ended up facing this wall. You know like really close door on herown and I kind of got the care his attention and says you know she canneeds to come away from the wall and come on watch the show- and she said Iknow it's fine, she just a midsins, it she's, fine. She won't know what'sgoing on anyway, but just so shocked. Wow, that is a is not very mad. APETAK,not my current fair home as much a yeah t e the too my to like what shewas writing about the visibility of these people. Perhaps he was Portin eview with being in a metal health ward. The yeah, and is that your your list yeahpretty much- I mean there- is so much good materialon journal for play. Levers Y. U C, do a whole podcast on that podcast serieson that they do have a really special place for that album. I know a lot ofpeople, think of it as a Holy Bible part to my sort of doing don't. I guess I do in that. It's the slightreturn of Richie, if you like, and that the tone is bleak and quite dark, although I say Leakin Dat,but there is some comedy in it with them things like me and Stephen Hawkin.

I am a fan. If we go down the road of talkingabout this, I think we'll be talking for another three hours, so yeah. I think I'll just wrap things upnow. Thank you Arthur agreeing to come onthe PODCAST. No, it was a pleasure. Thank you forinviting Pretty Nice to chat about music and chat about a band thatclearly mean a lot to all of us, and I think that sort of answers thequestion: Are they still relevant because yeah because to us they arebecause we're still talking about it, and I guess to the fans that you knowthat are on the forums and that do listen to your podcast and that adiscussing these issues on twitter, so the tens of people that are listeningto our podcast. So not just final things to say, then, is there anything that you you guyswould like to plague or point listeners in the direction of either work that you're doing upcomingepisodes Adam or late in any articles being published, doesn't have to be man ex related? Ifit's just something you want it all. My articles are boring dry, an tenietabout virtual reality and stuff, like that, I wouldn't I wouldn't inflict iton the white has a a O s. So if if people did want to check outthat this sang yeah, I I've just actually popped it in the zoom groupchat. All you guys a copy of that, so I says he get you me anyone's well, I'mgoing touch me, probably twitters. The easiest way, I'm athlete than Evans andpeople can just send me a tweet and some happy to send them a copy of it.Yet is, but if you've probably never go off the magazine publisher any morebecause it's got, he gin in Ri oby want to change you a hundred a issues or aTV or something yeah. I more than happy to share that and an yeah en was inChabanel. Welcome to you know like most people in twit to dothe bees me memos is it I just followed you for that veryreason. A course. I just wanted to put my groupon face book. I guess, if you're interchange in Afield, myspecial interest is splashed. All over a group called picturesque James Dean,Rador adoration, it is got. I just I just Ti- just joined the group today soyeah, that's it yeah, it's not just Middle Age wimpering on James. I knewthat seems like some of it is that I very much to know the you know, and I also do when they wonhe at tour again. I do a lot of face book live videos because I'm for Rod,good quality I as to share all my videos for you to e I've got anextensive you tube channel loans of manic stuff on their particularly theaffirment bit versions of all the girls on the last to that emily M J, Hyett they're so good as at there's that itit's in your channel, the one where, where he gets, that girl up just seeinglittle baby, nothing Oh Yahyah at high re, it becomes like a wedding singerfor about a third in as I load of covers, and s, that's a cool set. Ifyou just search for what is music podcast or you confine us on twitter orinstar any of those places, I think we're at what is music pod and we'regoing through the Decorah of Muse. We've just done absolution, but I dorecommend that Maix fans go back and check out season one because it wasfrom. We did that whole disco graphy, including best doves and includingmusic videos and besides and stuff, and we had some great guests and we hadlike Greg Haver and da Eringe and the anchoress and Simon Price and MichaelSheen and loads of cool people talking about the manic, what they mean to themand working with them and stuff. So, yes, I would say worth checking out asa manic fan myself. Well, she is thank you for a the timeand for...

...for your input, and I will let you knowwhen we're ready to launch and Adam. I look forward to the next episode yeah. Thank you. I don't look forwardtoo much. I've always do don't anticipate it too much, and you knowthe next one could always be the one that alienates everybody. You neverknow with meves on. If you do it properly. Okay, well, cheers guys take care of a join us next time. When I interviewSteven Lee Nation author of wrist and meaning and modern music masters, Ithink sort of behind the kind of nihilistic manifesto of like destroyrock and roll was always the long term. Manifesto of just bring in someintelligence to to music a.

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