Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Mouth-Off
Mouth-Off

Episode · 6 months ago

Mouth-Off BONUS episode part 4: Be Pure Be Vigilant Behave

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mouth-Off is a platform for marginalised groups to get their stories heard. Episodes cover a wide range of topics from race and religion to mental health issues and poverty. 

This is the fourth part of our BONUS mini-series - Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave; which is about Welsh rock band MANIC STREET PREACHERS. In this episode, I chat to author, poet, playwright, and lyricist Patrick Jones.  

As the elder brother of Nicky Wire, Patrick offers an interesting perspective on Manic Street Preachers’ manifesto and mission statement; before taking a deep dive with us into James Dean Bradfield’s second solo record EVEN IN EXILE (an album to which he contributed all the lyrics). 

Credits: 

Intro Music - music by Clary Saddler 

Seeking the Room with the Three Windows – music by Bradfield 

There’ll Come a War – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Thirty Thousand Milk Bottle – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

El Derecho de Vivir en Paz – music by Jara  

30 Year War – lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Anthem – lyrics by Peart, music by Lifeson and Lee 

Suspect Device – lyrics and music by Stiff Little Fingers 

View to a Kill – lyrics and music by Duran Duran and Barry 

La Partida – music by Jara, re-imagined by Bradfield 

Manifesto – lyrics and music by Jara 

The Guerilla Tapestry – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Boy from the Plantation – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Without Knowing the End – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

From the Hands of Violeta – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Before I Leave - lyrics by Wire, music by Bradfield 

Love Sweet Exile introduction – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Crucifix Kiss introduction – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Plegaria a un Labrador – lyrics and music by Jara 

Recuerda – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

The Last Song – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Santiago Sunrise – lyrics by Jones, music by Bradfield 

Yes – lyrics by Edwards, music by Bradfield and Moore 

Déjà vu – lyrics and music by Saddler  

Follow us on Facebook @FMNproductionsUK

Follow us on Twitter @1_forget

Follow us on Instagram @forgetmenotclary

Like the episode? Leave us a review here https://bit.ly/Mouth-Off

Welcome to mouth off, a podcast for andabout marginalized groups, episodes cover a wide range of topicsfrom sexuality in gender to race and religion. My name is clary Sadler and on to day'sepisode I'll, be interviewing poet, playwright, author and lyricist PatrickJones, we'll be continuing with a mini series,be pure, be vigilant, behave discussing the career and body of work of Welsh,rock band manic street preachers. Paki will be discussing life with amanic street preachers as the older brother of Miki wire, as well asdiscussing James Dean Bradfield's. Second, solar, album the groundbreaking even in exile, Hi Patrick Welcome back to the podcastthanks so much for coming on. I am really spoken more in much so I didn'tinterview a couple weeks back with a Isaret magazine so down in Chili. Itwas anyway and, and they were celebrating, it was fifty years sincethe album with the classic victoors and the right to live in peace. I oheeyo eothen o a e o e o Lokamanya in Lalor Gon a I see you a anesone close of e on the a o e o Abaso. I may be a bit rusty, but youknow we like we can. We can just have a chat, and you know thanks for you knowgoing with it really and why you said about you, know the songs you like andthat yeah it's really nice to you rely. Definitely I think I've used the periodof lock down to re, not reconnect with music,because music, you know, is my life very much the same as you and how wordsand poetry and literature is your life. I don't know if you find this Patrickwhen it becomes a little bit of a nine to five. I don't know if I appreciateit in the way I used to. I do now, because I've made a point of going backto it, but when I was sort of going to work and doing a specific kind of thing,I found that I wasn't just coming back and putting on an LP or putting a CD inthe player in the car. I just I kind of switch off to it, because I've been inthe music mode all day and I've yeah. I've made a point of just, and that wasone of the ones I revisited, because of course it came out a and I bought it,and I was this is fantastic. Put It on...

...the Vinal, had a listen and then Idon't know it's just I haven't been listening to music as much. Certainly Iguess over. I forget what Lockton we've been on now after Christmas. You know,I think everyone was a bit Oh no again and yeah. I think I had a little lookat myself and I thought well, I could do this. I've got the time to do it, soI've just really been reaching into these old albums and not even old,albums new albums that haven't fully immersed myself in and that's kind ofwhy. I wanted a chat about this because that's the one that's sort of in my myCD player at the minute. I can you be a e O, that's great lovely! Ah I knowit's some I'm doing a bit online play read in the next I next week. I thinkit is, and I, in working with an actor who was in my first play and Ollie Ryanis name is, and we were talking to the and he said he don't just discoveredthe album and he was just saying how much you really connected with him, andthere was just really nice second pass out to James now, because James Reallyloved him twenty years ago. When he was in this play and he's you go against it,you know so so it's yeah music, it's a great connector he's, even though allthe way here in Chile, you know Cups O. Everyone knew the story of Victor andthe, but I think the songs you know.Hopefully the songs are not preachy they're, not like jump around a bitlike I tehoon are not fish type of thing. You know we decided to approachit from more of a personal standpoint. I think which perhaps connects thenwith as it really comes across, and I think yeah for me personally, I knew Iknew the name, and I knew that you know something tragic a happened to him. Iprobably didn't know a great deal and of course, as any great album does you,you just really want to pick up a book, or I mean we've got the Internet, ourfingertips now so just sort of research and find out more about it. It waslovely listening to listen to the podcast that James did to accompanythat story as well, because I think a lot of people wouldn't necessarily haveknown you know the INS and outs of whathappened there and it yeah. I think it was just nice to open your eyes and, asyou say, I not a preachy way in a way that kind of connected personally in a holding a consistence but cold Richmond and a Gentisha...

...few of the early lyrics. We were alittle bit like that because I was coming at from a different angle andthen we sort of sat down and just sort of it just sort of branched out intosomething else, and I just found myself digging much deeper into Victor Horror.Sort of you know he gave you such a family man, that's what I loved abouthim. You know he was his family was so important to him and just those littlemoments that he you know, a big inflation was Joan Hara's book andunfinished Song. He bout a lot of that. You know, and it just yeah really really stayed with me. Soyou know yes, that's who it turned out really, and it was. It was a lovelyprocess to you now is so much easier than writing a book of forty poems thatyeah endlessly rejected by publishers. You Eleven lyrics was quite easier. Yes, yes, music! Yes, it's a greatconnector and yeah. You know sanctury again yeah yeah, so I started thispodcast. I mean, as you know, you've been on before you've been. I think youwere on in like episode six yeah last year right at the start of the wholelock town, but yes yeah. You know we started, I guess, with the goal ofgiven a platform for marginalized voices or even people thatmaybe they're not marginalized themselves, but just kind of want toget that message out or want to speak of kind of these stories and we've hadan array of people or talking about l, GT, plus issues, no working classcommunities, gender, you know, disgust, a variety of topics and yourself whenyou came on last year and being a musician and kind of having that passion. I was simmeringunder the surface. I did want to do a music tamed episode. I guess, as abonus episode really just just for myself indulging myself really and Iyeah, I kind of thought. Where do you start this? You know so many greatmusicians and singers out their song writers, who themselves might you know,identify as marginalized or who aim to talk upon these issues, and I wanted tosort of guess to someone I consider the ultimate band for coming across theseissues in, as you say, not a pretty way, interestingly, that I decided to lookat the Manic Street preachers with the name but yeah not in a preachy way, and you know I cost there- their whiteolder men they're, not your marginalized in the typical sense, butI've always felt listening to them from a young age that they talk upon issuesthat reach a range of audiences. Do you think, obviously, you've you've seenhow they've progressed you've been on the sideline sometimes and in theforefront of other times? Would you describe that the manic shout preachesas that kind of band a band, for you know marginalized communities? Yeah. Definitely you know- and I thinkyou know I sinkings we going you know I got both my parents and we goingthrough the House and and all that and and my dad shared and me and neck theother day- and you know I said Said you remember practicing in that little shedand we can ardly stand up on it now yeah. So I use that you know is a bitof a symbol really because when they started you know I was a little bitolder than that they mighta obviously gone to America and with writing how Iwas finding my voice and expression, but you know they had no money, theyborrowed instruments they. You know, you know, no one really liked what theywere doing him, but they were writing about things that, because, when youthink about that ere, you know it was Jesus Jones, em, F, you know stoneroses have come out. I think obviously swayed her around there wasn't manybands writing, I suppose, about bearing witness to the society we were livingin the world we live in in. If you look at their first album, I think ma mix,you know it's a bit of a Jackson, polit painting of different issues and themesand- and they obviously you know with riches input as well, a different sortof Lirais as well that and I'm trying to be a bit objective. Obviously, nextto my brother, I know them well, but I think O that they set out from astandpoint of of truth. You know they a...

...truth, reflecting the stories that theywere living and the people they knew and where they came from so yeah you'reright, they're white, you know, but we know what it was they all from any workin class communities with a family usual my family had nothing growing up.You know if we had. You know I remember the old day of Milkman coming round and you knowhiding. You know boys going go up to your rooms imit, because we didn't haveany money to pay the Milkman and things like that. So yeah, you know, I said, as marginalized cover so manydifferent things. You know we we came from the whole community was margil. Itwas post, you know the miner strike Ye. It was a huge you know, struggle ofmaking ends meet. You know just like today has been in, as in the last year,people really up against it and then so yeah. I can't speak for them, but Ithink they set out with this vision of. Let's just you know not just be selfindelligent. Let's write about things are perhaps in a connect with peopleand want to move people so yeah that was then and on. Obviously they growand develop and the Middle Age. You know you know fiftene and fifty two,but obviously but yeah. I still think you know they're dealing with thisshoes. Perhaps it not that many bands really still go with there oyot. You is war, for example. I thinkthat's quite yeah, beautiful lyric and yeah. So that's my take on on them. Ithink, and also you know, to reflect the stuff that influenced them. Perhapsmyself a bit with all sorts of writers. Really it wasn't as well write as orthe man be Nogan as great as that is you know it was Ralph Ellison, a greatblack American writer if he wrote invisible man, which wasjust a member Sharat with James and Richie, and he blew a mines with AlanGinsburg. Who was obviously so you know openly gay and you know, would recountthe experience of that community in America, which was still quite radicalwhen you think you know it, you know touch on out. I E. I still have an areayou know, even though we had quit. You know the music in the s was very, veryopen and we, you know, people like soft sal were big influences, but but beliveliterature wise go up in the vice. We never had that in school, but readGinsburg it was. It was really empowering and really liberating for usall. I think, and this this voice, which I came upon in about nineteeneighty five. Eighty six, I suppose you know- and so so I've got a bit of ascattergun approach there. I can't speak for them. I've never beenin the band. I see my brother and we've shared a lot of times together withJames and the but yeah so you've mentioned there about. You know othermusicians that maybe would sort of doing you know like stone roses, swayednot really doing the same kind of thing in terms of music that that you liked aat that time and even now would you say you know that your level of fandom hasever veed towards an obsession for a musical band or an artist or is italways mainlybeing the literature that...

...has been the thing that has sort ofdriven you and and got you excited to a it? Wasn't a great reader. You know Ireally I struggled in school and probably didn't read. You know a poemtill I D, probably yeah. Probably you know posty more, like an universitywhen I was like twenty, you know. I wasn't like some child protege. Youknow in literature tall, it was music was my language. You know going back to.I suppose I started with you know a bit of a heavy rock time. You know I got toadmit that terrible lyrics, but it was just guitars and you know that sort ofthing when I was about fourteen and fifteen that started and then you know I wasobsessed with a bank called rush. I don't know if you say Dost Rash, youknow yeah and this to listen to them now and I love their journey of youknow our artist try. You know it was just they made me, go and read a littlebook or look into more stuff for good to the library, as you would have tothen from their references. Some were slightly it should we say you know notmy cup of t an ran, for example. They. You know they were kit inspired by someof her words in the early lyrics and when locked it up. I remember thing: Idon't really quite get what she was about really so so it but, but stillyou know, I think sometimes you have to you- have to read something which you,you know disagree with along that journey, so it was a elais first, two albums theclash obviously were always the early sex pistols. Well, early sex bistolshasn't one album, yeah civil fingers with a huge influence. I think yeah,the first album it was music. Then I think I'm notgoing to romantic that I said, but you know you sort of lived and died for aband or or a fit, and he thought with the band praps. You know, and I bynothe you to albums year after you, you know, went until Bono got a bit of hisown room. You know the Affogato fire that wasjust such a permit time in my life. Remember, I was going to think in AP myfirst year in university and no second en university. Oh so war was a yeah warand number war going. I was eighty three going to university and just thatyou know it really galanies a lot of my thoughts, and you know just just helpto educate me and about you know, give me a balance, I suppose so, music yeahit was a bit yeah. It was. It was speaking my language prose ydidn't yeah hit me in to a bit later. I'll, be honest. Do you think, would you have been more? Would youhave found it more appealing if a band had had, like you said any tart ortheir own sort of philosophy, Al Manifest? So is that the kind of thingthat drew you in not like, should we say you know crabs or someone like that?You know, although I in looking back, I love what they did and I love theirarms, but I couldn't get in Sonica ly into the music. Well, he was just doyou know I do like a good guitar ris, sorry, so yeah it wasn't like you knowit was almost like tribal. Wasn't it you would have your mad o your punksand you handy rockers and your two tones. You know. That's the way yougrew up, I suppose, and it was a way O belonging. You know, did you have anysort of what you might call now guilty pleasures? You know: Did you love a bitof a Sindya er on the sly or yeah, and I always love soft sell butbeing a heavy rock back an you can't really talk about that, but I just lovethe melodies that Mark Almond and can think of the other member of it or ayeah mark ut. But you know so I didn't really love soft sell and that sort.You know gene removes it a little bit, but it was more than a guilty pleasuresyeah and Bredrand Eran Yeah.

He sing inside, but music yeah music was my firstlanguage. I suppose, and I had a guitar saved her work. In the summer I had asixty five pound guitar from Kay's catalog, probably a bit before yourtime, maybe but anyway, so I'm not trying toromantic says there were hard times as well. You know obviously working crapjobs and just you know, Dis not knowing what to do but Brett, but it was alwaysa glimmer of just going back and listen to an album, and you know yeah safe in that world, so it wasalmost like a little yeah, a little safe, safe place, music and albums tome yeah thinking about going back to the maniksagain and bands with manifest those I mean, as you said, you weren't in theband, you can only really speak on what you witnessed and how you've seen themgrow. But do you think they've remained true to I don't know if you could callit a manifest though, but you know it certainly seemed like there was a clearone in the early days yeah. Well, I think as any artist you know you knowit changes along the way. You know children come along mortgages and Isuppose fame and sort of money does change your approach a little bit orit's bound to you know not for poets Sathren, but you know knowing them asindividuals. Now the core is still they. Obviously, the spray painted shirts.That was an twenty year olds way of of reaching out and screaming a little bit,and but I think you know that yes, so manifest o yeah. Obviously I don't knowwhat their call would be for their next albums. Should we say, obviously Idon't know don't know, but for what I know of the the boys that the yeah thatsort of you know should we say that journey from when they started, and ifyou look back, if you look at all the bands around that I'm very fever aroundnow, you know and fit play. The manic have always just created. Maybe some oalbums are flocked. You know, as anything in the world of you, knowmusic and creation sort of thing, but I think you know the beauty of it is thatthey just love crafting songs and trying to bear witness as opes to whatmaybe it's become a little bit more into introspective. As time has gone onthat that's age a little bit, I think you know it's not all ranting and, likeI said you know repeat after me, for Queen and country type of thing, soyeah. It's just a trajectory. Paps of you know you, it could be argued. Thediffer band starts off the and exact. Is it exactly the same in twenty fiveyears has at? Is that a development? Maybe I don't know you know some peoplelive off a couple of hits from like in the S. don't there you know somethingso but yeah, but I'm no spokes person forthe Mimic you know, obviously, is no no course, and I suppose yeah. I wanted toget a little bit of that background. Just discussing that before we get onto talking about even an exile yeah, because that is the second solo albumby Manik Front man, James in Bradfield and as you've mentioned at the start,it pays tribute to Chilian activists and musician. Victor Hale...

...was really thin August. Two Thousandand twenty you wrote the lyrics for the album fears before. That, though, isthat right yeah I had the idea I sort of wood in a way about right e MoMeteoro back in two thousand and sixteen two Honan a d. seventeen really,you know one boy with a long story of it, but it was it's really a strange.You know sort of serendipity of different things in a net. Shall I, aswork on the play before I leave. I think we've talked about them. We andYe, and- and in your edition an eighty year woman walked in isn't card. Is hecome from London? I did not much about her. I knew the name, etcetera and shewas marvellous. She was just like this eccentric. You know passion that she,you know at coming all the way down from London on the train he in to anaudition room anyway Celia and she yeah we got talking and she I think I had. Ican remember how, when I Gogle, I saw that she who she was the widow ofAdraien, a great poet what he really like. So we got talking about a bitabout his work and then it went on that that she explained when a victor'swidow and Joan came in exile from Chile to England, with a do with theirdaughters, Jon and a Jones stayed with Celia and Ada Mitchell. In London- andso I thought that was a fasting part ofthe story, she got the part and in Sanby she was she got. She fell downthe stairs she and she's all right, but she we had to get someone else in sureshe didn't perform in the place. I was, it was quite sad and then he had to goto London because he obviously she was eighty. You know- and I been through alot anyway and then couple of weeks later I as go through Cardiff. You knowand Canton picked and just saw this in charter shop, copy of manifesto ofVictor Hara or Mo Manifestos. His battered old, dilapidated vinal pickedit up and I I lie could tough times es. I remember it was two pounds and Inearly didn't buy it because it was tight times and and like water anywaywent home listened and he was just yeah. It just blew me a wake at like I said.I knew the story a little bit and then the Seran depite talking to Celiapicking up this album and I had translations. So no the POGANIP, the wit O O, like it Ernestine l, we of your. I O no noi merit's a bizarre, but becauseit's got Victor Hara singing and then...

...which doesn't really contradict thelisting experience. You've got translation going on as he sang him isquite bizarre. You know, and and Adrian Mitchell's poem is on there as well, sobecause machell was a huge, you know, supporter of Victor and the sort ofmovement in Chili in the Seventies. All this all this going on anyway. So twohundred and seventeen remember sitting down- and I just started- writing a fewthings, and I did so because then I sorry, I missed up one key point. Istarted googling and finding more because there was no expert on VictorHara or Chili or Pinoche. You know it's just things you hear about it and Ithought I need to find out more about this and then, when you find a storywhen I read about that sway, I just couldn't believe that the inhumanityand the injustice that he gone on you know, and it just fined me up, and Ijust wanted to write about it. You know, and then you find out with America'sinvolvement in in peniches which em how they were frightened of socialism andChile, so infiltrated, and you think this is just as in a tendon with trump had been elected to those sixteenomit. So it was all these things going on. My head is thinking, you know.Forty seven natures on has anything changed, and so it just felt the righttime to sort of explore that, but I also see it is resonance to know anthat's a really long statement of what, where I came from and then James used to pop round. As hesaid, the interviews on a Sunday night, he wur going to see his dad. I waitabit of a low ebb for many different reasons going through divorce. My manwas was diagnosed then with leukemia, so I was a little bit. You know it'sdifficult time really and Yeah James are come on the Sunday we would talk. Iwould check him ideas, and so I started you know just showing me a few poemsand then you know he didn't go straight away. All Les make an album, nothingthat it was. They took a few months really and then he thought. Oh as hecame back and he said Oh, I put some music to one of those poems John, everlisten and then, and then suddenly this this Hoilloo concept sort of revolvefrom from that. So there we are so you know yeah. There was no sense that itwas going to be well. Even then you know we thought we could just do as a por something it was no go. I just knew that it was a story that had that theseall these elements, you know- and you know, from the political as I said, andthe sense of standing up to you- know big businessand then the privatisirender of a country which was what happened in inChili and so alongside that, the Poe of music and then Victor Hara. This veryquiet, gentle spoken family man and they just thought. I just thought: Oh,what a powerful story so yeah anyway, that's where it came from really and asense of rage as well. I think you've got to have that. Sometimes, if you youmove to right, you know- and Ah so that's where it came from, hopefully of a very you know very realplace, really as much as real can be separated from Chili and Wales, but hehave done a spoken word or a few spoken word. Poetry album. So you know alittle bit about that process of having the music reflecting in a way. I guessthat you know, as the chief lyricist that needs to to reflect your message.Like you say, if there is rage and fire in there, then you don't want somethingsoft and acoustics. So I guess I was wondering how how much musical inputdid you have? We are not to ceive by your words, weceiveth your promises to sanctify your life. We are a disaffected clatsop inthe mix, commercials aloes Redmon with and in the rain wrenched or fall intothe market traders, a lazy to me up a ring into our pennies and entrance onaction, a memory or dream this Holin, like both is gain the hates place.Without me, this stepping out of screens us all allow desolations findthe PATARAE. Smallest Party makes a shadow in the hanging out the washingthe poet from every day in the dignity of Hiite, anxiety of for the sentenceof being, but still still still, a ben we are, but to place trap in the frost.Victor is acknowledging the fact that we we have not get on so correct mewith your Ammanition Anity, with your breast creaky with your treasure for me,our to direct David feedle, free, SASAA,...

...t e e, the peacefulest social, a a shoes, acredit to a offereth mentioned the spoken word Yeah. I think it's adifferent process because that's where I learned, because I would presentJames with a poem- and he was said. What's this, you know so he's quite atough task, master that the so then he would put it back and say: No, you know you know, I need something moretangible, so you know what a key phrases, what you know Chislettsomething more Singable, even though as Tweaker, so they would go away fromthat base poem. And then I would write verses and- and I wouldn't say I alwaysa Corus James- is very good- a pick picking those out so but musically yeah.I mean there was one more when he came back with biffore plantation and the nowas it like yeah. I was that's it. An e played to me. I said O. I just thinkit's too happy cappy James. I E his face his face when, like rock, I reallywasn't happen, but even though you know, even thoughhe hell, you know he was very opening his critic in a brutally criticisercism of some of the lyrics I gave him, but but what he did he went away then,and he came back with the version that we hear, which I think is such a moving.You know goose pimpled version, so it sort of sparked him off a bit yea. Itjust didn't feel right, but that's your you know. That is the only musicalinput I had in the album, which is fine. I knew when I quitted you that you weregonna shine forever. I, when you cry a you with a blanket andto you my son, to the Ro we to love, as we have teased words of my Mosic, Isuppose so yeah I trusted him. Of course, you knowhe's been working, look look at the songs, he's created so yeah. So whenanswered your question yeah, it's a it was quite a Lidia Division of Laboryeah, which I think worked really well and actually you know listening to it. Ithink I felt that the music did do the lyrics justice. It never did never feltjarring at all. A I'd be interested to hear the happycappy version original version a and did you sort of? I guess, did youdiscuss both of you, the overall aesthetics of the album, or did it kindor was it quite organic? You know. Just I mean thinking of the album art work,it's simple, but it's just even even that is yeah very yea. I suppose themost important thing I think, as I was getting the balance of the songs rightyou know, and so it wasn't all Siculis a socio economic, political rants andwhat we found in there. Obviously, you know because revolution sometimes andthe there's a tendency for it to be dominated or written by males you knowand what we found. Obviously, in Victor Story was you know the legacy ofVioletta Para Para. Obviously, who is a massive influence on him? In the firstinstance?...

I didn't know what e screaming a Wisperin blevoort wheel, rejoice O fo loss, a funny froome that I will ever know it is I and his mother who played guitar andtaught him songs and his wife Jones. So so I knew that we really had to tellsome stories. You know through the Voice of the female in this story, andI love those songs that James created them. When I said this is sort of youknow boy fold plantation, it is his mother, looking back as in this otherworld of death because she died when she was fif so y when he was fifteen m,so he was very young. He had to become the head of the family, so it was likethis quite a yeaning sense of you know: Parenthood, O Motherhood. So we say youknow of looking back at to your son that never knew you and you never knewhim, and I success accept, or so was a questing is yes yeah. I cud all thesedifferent voices. You know and like I said, the female voice became reallyapparent that we needed to address that and deal with it in the in the tracksand then we needed, I suppose, to give it a bit of a sort of a journey reallyand that's where we ended with Santiago Sunrise, the Antonowa you as the world begins it de Memory of battles forgot the Moingona in a Abit, our sort of set in the wayof it was we two thousand and Eighteenn in...

...in Chili, obviously, when they werehaving protest again on the streets and people would be arrested and they weresinging Victor Harar songs in Santiago, which I thought was this a you know ona bootiful moment so yeah so so aesthetically now you know that thatwas James as cool, because it was his album with the art work and how itlooked, which is fine. Of course, you know iswasn't like, like I said it's, my one of my spoken word alms with a musician.It was, it was yeah, it was more yeah. It is a different process of creation,but I suppose we had to get, and that was the most. It was the hardest, butthe most beautiful part of the craft in those songs in the lyrics which thenhopefully told a sort of a story that makes c without it being to a tweet we,it was more of a you know. Expressionistic story should we sayyeah and it's that that sort of writing in character isthat something I suppose I mean. Obviously I'm not notthinking in relation to play right in now, but in relation to your poetry. Isthat something you've explored a lot? No, I haven't. No I've never diebecause I think poetry is. I was well the way I write. I suppose more so wasmore the first place, it's I you know and it's more confessional in the way ouryou know, look looking out upon the world, so it was a different approachto me for me really, but but it does help. Obviously, you know during thevoices of characters you when creates in plays, because that me, in you knowfrom somewhere else as well that if you can't all be yourself in places,obviously you create these vices and characters and stories yeah, but I alsofind it quite liberating. We need to sort of set aside my own, should we saya gender in a way to channel. You know the voice is really done in withoutknowing the end. For example, yeah that was was just a final, quite a foolfilling process. You know in a way to try a different voice, a Isaias liberated. Do you t? I thinkthat writing lyrics is something you would consider doing again with withanother musician. If someone approached you was this something you would behoping to do in, like I said in a way, it's a lot easier. It's a lot more justa different process, obviously, and obviously, as is working with chainsban, feel there was going to be an audience when you know when I wascreating poems. I was thinking no one's going to publish my poetry for this,because I don't know you know I just didn't feel it was. Is it was hard toget potry out at that time? I did how much investment publishers anyway. Sothat's another project. Yeah I mean I quite like it writing lyrics is a bitsimpler, but but I also feel very restricted. Sometimes you know becauseyou do have to have that Scanian you do have to have not half to. Should we seesort, that's one but most of the songs. Perhaps a stick in our heads and youknow you've got that chorus. You've got that sort of you know riming couplets.Perhaps you know which easier except, but it's also quite a process ofdistilling all those ideas done, which it was quite hard to do. I think aswell for for my mind you know I'm a bit HAP hazard, so it was quite adiscipline, a perhaps that's the word. I was looking for yeah, but a happydiscipline, yeah, so yeah, I'm always up pride for collaborations anyway.Yeah yeah and I think someone who's, writeslyrics and poetry. Myself, they've very you know the two different hats and Ithink after our last interview. Actually, as you know, my father hadjust died. Actually I think he was in the hospiceat the time he hadn't passed away at that point, and you know just chattingto you and you shared one of your poems from my Bright Shadow, and I actually,I think, after that interview, went away and wrote some poetry about thesituation with my dad, and it was very different to how I would have you knowwritten a song about it. It just I don't know it. Just kind of my braingoes into a different mode and yeah you're right you don't really orwhether it rhymes or not it doesn't...

...matter. I don't sort of go into it.Trying to test write something that rhymes. I sort of forget all that it isdifferent, a different discipline. I think you're right there. It is yeahand I, I suppose, Yeah Tis, a wit, the stronger yeah Basal, is good to havethe you work a little bit. Should you do play in his Oman as well as youwrite, yeah play, Guitar, yeah? Okay, oh well, so it so you could. You canalmost sure that Meledin your head a little bit perhaps which helps the in away the song lyric yeah, but each I think is got is you know it's puresense of communication, but it yeah it's just it's just how you go into it.I suppose I'm like with you, I think, with the poem it's just. I find it hardto wait, poetry on a screen. I don't know about you yeah! I just like lookyeah sort of quite free, really so yeah it's just. It was nice to go back toPol Jaffer in a way because I didn't have the pressure the end of of Jamesgoing. Have you know? What are you going to do with that? You need toshorten that line and all that you know it's quite a quite to you makes it bean and just but, but I also there an interesting Imessed in the way. You know that collaboration with a musician. You knowbecause you're back to yourself, then I was just you against the world. Yeah yeah, I mean so it's not the first time.You've collaborated with the maniks or some of them. I know. Was it James andNickie wrote the title Song for before I leave, which is the play that you'vejust discussed the your audition Celia. Was It yes, yeah e e e e o o a t e s tiller? Yes, I think they did. They contributeto your spoken word album as well tanks for a stammer in time, yeah and James.I, on my first one as well. Come in Resin, I'm easier. You know yeah andJames s done. You know, hold some tracks, for I think it's two or threeplays you know: Yeah work with yeah so and yeah nick and I use a little bit more HAPAsa. You know brothers and we don't always work out, but but yeah you knowis a lovely song there e for before I leave yeah yeah, that's beautiful. Iwas listening to their first album generation terrorists and the two ofyour poems are intros. A sort of spoken word intro to Yeah Love we excel tecuci fix kiss. Is that? Is it your voice as well? Iwas wondering that Ye, a very young Bush and obviously funny if I wasliving in America and niceas to record a few little pieces, and I I who s ninehundred and ninety one o an nine hundred and ninty two. I think it wasyeah and I remember do it on a little cassette and Popina set off to Britain.You know and then they used it. It was really lovely moment yeah. So I dosound a little bit to higher voice. Perhaps how did that come about? Was itjust that you know they'd seen the poetry and thought all that would thatwould suit these two songs. Yeah again, I used to send poetry back. You know Iwas living in America from O N Eighteen, nine D, a D, Ninety two, and so it wasjust that you know. Letter item was always a big thing between me, NickJames Richie E, and we would shear poems and looks, etc. So they hadseensome things yeah. I think one poem...

...was it was. It was called the eloquencein the scream and I think it wasn't it like that title, and so I think I mighthave recorded a big chunk and then they just cut it up into you know, obviously,a verse which was, it was lovely. You know, so that was this probablystarting point of James's Guitar, with with some of my words, if you know yeah,definitely yeah. I also read somewhere that their Song Tennessee was inspiredby something you had said or R. Your travels in America Yeah. That's what it was really. Isuppose yeah because I lived in Tennessee, but I was also I just love.Tennessee Williams is work, so it was a bit of residence about that bit ofmetaphorical word play with Tennessee really yeah, but you know James haveguest and he still doesn't know he gets inspired by one word or something andhe was obsessed, though the Wood Tennes see like so yeah I mean you know older brother.Obviously I was four and four years old a next, so I was plowing on in the world doing whateveryou know imposing them yeah, it's just nice that yeah there was that sense ofback and forth ness of words really. You know it was very pure in those daysand like I said when I saw back at the in the Shard, remembering thempracticing the O. I remember going to James's House where his dad still livesand- and I think James's man was out working and his dad ad coming from workand a fellows fell asleep in the Tam with a cigarette Burinan they in hishand- and there was a band practicing with a drems Guitar. So the noise wasjust crazy and I was there my typewriter trying to be Jack, Carackand and Monte James Dad a sleep in the chair. I was just looking back. It wasjust you know, yeah those moments at that at the time you don't realize howspecial they are. I Sapyeha, I say that so do I lost my thought there, just the sense of yeah, because when wehad this mad idea of you know starting a generation, and so James had an actof friends from college, but really this I generation was only them and meand this actor. You know we were like be generation allyou know all our sense of in one when you're hinted and twenty you just takethe world yeah definitely Ly. But you know it is an important I think,apprenticeship to go through as an artist and you've got to you got tofail so many times and have some crazy dreams and were big coats and walk downyour High Street until people look at you and laugh at you, and if you comethrough that, it's like it's like training in e as an aspect, butdefinitely you know and then and then to have. You know the success that youdid both have with that album. I mean you know too be but yeah. But yes, I oryou were an interrelates, though you know, you've been too modest, Patrick,but I you know you know he had some good reviews. People got, it could havegone either way and it could have been was two people to blokes from WalesRight, the o Victor for in Chili, except what do they know about it? Youknow, and but hopefully it came through- that we just did it from you know. Apeer motive of you know a story that need to be told it. So I know you knowif someone from Chili want to write about o England doe, you know mine, youknow is that you know. I suppose we have to look quite far back for ourheroes, heroines,...

...yeah a talking about the reviews, thefavorable reviews that it had so I've got just one here. I D like to read outfrom N P Scott who described it as a fantastic piece of work that works wellas a collection of brilliantly written and highly enjoyable songs, and that'seven without the fact that this is actually a concept album about the lifeof Victor Hara. The lyrics for this album were written by Patrick Jones,brother of Nikki wire and a fine word Smith in his own right, clearlyinspired and as always wanting to bring another slice of history and culture tothe attention of a new audience. Bradfield. Second Solo LP proves to bea fascinating side, road in the Romanic, remarkable story and yeah. I thinkthat's just spot on personally. You know it is just bringing that that newslight well a slice of history but to a new audience, and it's fantastic tothink that there are people, possibly even as young as fifteen, sixteenwhatever but may have heard it in. You know my kids blessing out of my of mystudio that are going to look up that story go on Google and just spend alittle bit of time with it, which I just think is again the wonderful powerof music. Definitely that's right, and you know all my life. I've always youknow been inspired by you know, to go and find out what the stories are. The righters are. Thepoets are the lives that people write about. They suppose is that endlesspsycho, really we did you know we didn't set out like a big educationalproject, obviously not a but and interest me entia y know, Vitharr songsstill performed and sang and he's got this huge. You know following stir,which is which is rather beautiful. You know- and I think Yeah Joan I thinkmust be ninety now, so she probably ninety- and you know what wealth ofWork Victor would have created after because you know he was murdered inseventy three, so he was so young. You know to think what he could have doneas well and so a tellable you know a life cut short, and so, if that albumsomewhere on the line, yeah make some one good and look into it, maybe writetheir own songs or because lease you Victor Hara, just you know, his senseof protest was so human and so deep when you just read some of the lyricsor where the songs come from. I M looking at some of the titles andgone the near prayer to a laborer. I to me a on a in my head. So is a past and we, the VINTA the last. My part a is TCHARANGUII. Yes, a gap at the man or...

...the Anand. Let me say a a our hearts are full of banners whichcould almost like a but billy brag song, but it's a very gentle and de statedyou know, but he wrote about the people about the people, the oppressed which,when you look at the world at the moment you know you just think or we oVicto Hara. Now you know we could do with our voice. So I think the life youknow his life, the way he lived it and his Esaus is so you know, inspirationis a word check bandied around too much, but it really you know it's reallythought provoking and makes you think about your own reason to create perhapsand yeah so it's yeah it was. It was a little perhaps I'll, add to a littlepiece of his history. That's what that's what I was trying to say reallyyeah yeah yeah, I think yeah, the songs. There were four that have really stoodout to me at which I share now so or a character Roqueta when they come to you do with the loves and the guns. When I take, you lay a tete and leadewetts, she ha the land of the free thisbe, those who would not have been in the name of liberty, a coffee, my Santiago Sunrise, which you've alreadymentioned and from the hands of I Letta, which you've also already mentioned,and the last song fundatae best travel, a Tauroi think they stand out for me, Iguess most lyrically and musically, so...

...how? How that sort of malady a musicalarrangement compliments the poetry of the of the words it almost feels likethey were composed alongside it. You know that that sort of side by side ofall the songs on the album which do you feel or is there one in particular,that you feel that the music kind of just yet that sums up be exactly themessage you wanted to convey. HMER sting question, really: Isn't itbecause yeah, because I had no control or written you totally interested apartfrom the worm. You know, and it's so I think to me it would be both of theplantation when I first heard A. I think I've said about this in when todo when I hould done that version of it. I was sat pet as the car park orsomething my mom went died, and I was at dis a terrible time. Gen generallyreally and my dad was very ill, and I remember listening to that album. Soyou listen to that song and it just made me cry just it just summed up thesense of I couldn't explain it this way. It came from that sort of sound. Sothat's that music was very important to me. I I also think, then of for adifferent reason. The last song, the way it really chops and changes, andyou really a I m, going to give a bit of a quote of born om now sorry, but inthe once he said he said about to the edge you want, he said bullet the Blue Sky was it? Is it andhe said I come ever the ready court. No was Tofu, you know, Oh God, Tony Seeromy mind, but what are you trying to convey isfor the edge to create a world through the amp. That's right, a world, youknow I'm the actual quote, so I don't want to misquote it a d. It was likethe edge it for his guitar to sound, like this place this world that he wascreated in the song. Sorry so to the lyric was about you know we lots of different things really, butthe sense of the victor's last poem was written when he had been. You know taken taken from the university and putinto this this stage in with, I think three or four thousand other politicalprisoners, people a you know from university professors, singers, SongWriters, people, Trade Unionists and in em a reading of this horrible worldthat you know with all gods in the army there they were just shooting people atat at will and they knew Victor Hara. They knew you know who he was there. Hewas a marked man should we say so his last poem he memorized it and it wassmuggled out by other members of the people who wove been imprisoned thereand it lived on that O in which just just made me. You know very emotionalreally that, right to that point, he still wanted to be a witness and itlast it lasted. So it was a sense of that was his lot, his last song, andthen I was thinking in the way in a way a sense of futility of you. We are nowand all these songs have been written. So if it was the last song you know it is it worth it all? I was.I was asking that question a bit and then, when I started writing it, it wasa couple of lines about anti. The news here is the ladder one step at a timebeing afraid to climb. They took your hands, but they could not silence yourTang. That's right, the darkest night, the last song, a d and the way Jamesarticulated that with his music, just it was. It was just very beautiful andvery and then it goes into that really dark side of the song, which is almost like, like death, likebullets, sort of thing, so so the music to that is almost like a sound track toVictor Hara's last couple of days and which is yeah so anyway. Yes, I wasgoing to say that that the birth just well the chorus, isn't it that you justread out there that line. They took your hands, but they could not sign it.You tongue, but yeah that bit just yeah really got me and its beautiful s,lovely musically and then you're right. It just sort of goes back into thatdark, yeah more of a ditch, but it really suits kind of what was happeningat that at that point. So yeah it really takes. You takes you into it,transforms you so Sonica ly. I think the those two songs really you knowmean a lot to me and then watchas captured. It was just one of the littletiny thing. Is that the end of Santiago Sunrise?...

You know, I don't know how you won'ttell me how we made the sound, but it's almost like a vortex, and it remindedme remind me of of death, basically of my mother and father pass in of what itmust have been like for Victor Hara to suddenly leave this world and it everytime I listen to it. It literally sex the out of my own lungs, which is youknow, the end of Santiago with just sort of Sh and yeah lea's me GOOSpimple, so that for a piece of just just a sound escape and t and yeah, Ithink we both agreed. You Know James, wanted to create almost that end, whichis yeah, which is death, but then, butthen we must carry on. I suppose there was a sense when that, when that songfinishes you're left there thinking right, what what can I do now? Isuppose, maybe if it's on a personal level with our loved ones or or societywith protest, and as we find ourselves in in today's world with so much torage about you know what can we all do so yeah? I sound like a bloody preacher,they're going on a boat, all things, but that's an interesting question howwords in the music match and yeah, because you know I've done. You knowyou've handed a poem over to someone, you know and they come back with. Maybenot what you expected, but I mean that's the risk. Obviously, but yeah it was. It was great. Listeningback to when James would can y would come up in my house with a little cos,Te Guitar and just play. You know those germinating songs. I suppose he'sclearly got a talent for making even its something very dark. You knowI'm thinking about the Holy Bible as just kind of the very good example ofthis yeah and a song like. Yes, it's still so melodic. You know if you take,if you take take away all the instrumentation and just kind of singthat M that to yourself dumb can sing the question all this. I don't know what I I I unyoke on me, but nothing in Im, like you wanted to Annes, was in an tininesses whistle it yeah without singing the words it'sjust it's so melodic and but then works really well when you've got it in thecontext of the whole track. So you know it's definitely a skill. That's like, as you said, can bea difficult one to balance getting something miladi yeah, Singer Ball.That doesn't detract too much from you know the serious subjectmatter of an album like this, but that's to itis funny that you know that isn't in the chorus in the s is like some onelike fucking calling rooted. If you want or something as it's like thisbizarre dark perverted world and its sticks in your head, because the waydid sing, he sings it. No He's Distat, like I said, he's awork horse. He really it just doesn't stop with them. You know creatingthings and almost could drive your man. I suppose you're always hearing thesemaladies in your head. You know and O so yeah yeah he's a he's. A great he's,a great artist, do you know I mean? Is he shared with you if one of yourlyrics from the album is it a favorite, a particular favorite of his Oh good, good yeah? I may well be atwhat we talked about that that at the last chorus in the last song I thinkyeah. I think that was something that you really enjoyed working with...

...yeah, you wouldn't come back, so Ireally e e, obviously really open, and is I like this lyric or that that thatworks well, but but James e e cause he just plows on with things. Sometimes hesupposed to, and we didn't really talk about that too much really and but yeah. It would probably be the the chorusthen about the Anti Anti. I can remember it now, I'm to the new seas,the late in a by the time yeah. So I guess just just to finish up then.What do you think the legacy of this project is or maybe a better way toframe? The question is to quote a a manic song: can anyone still write aprotest? So can music still change the world, or does it album like this asgreat as it is kind of just stand alone, and then we move on from it or ratherlives that can still be touched by. You know the power of music, as we spokeabout already yeah, I suppose a few parts of that question as to the album,I suppose, yeah you know we could be just forgotten about or as a almostlike a heritage piece of art, I suppose really. Hopefully it's not you know,but but it could be that that it was it's reflecting a time fifty years agoyou know perhaps without having any relevant. Today, however, you know Iwould say that Victor as ideas and what he stood for and the whole movement inChili is so important. Now we know so about people sticking together,communicating and fighting for causes that they believe in which we do see. Ithink, with black loves Mattin me too extinction rebellion. You know, I thinkpeople are, you, know, standing up for things and really really holding theline more than than the last twenty years, perhaps so as to if mos it'sinteresting, because yeah thus re movements mentioned there, I can'tthink of any music which, unless I've missed it, maybe they there have beenthings coming up. But you know I don't know musically, which sort of ourtestament to that to those movements. I don't know if, if you can think of any,but can you at all, I don't know yet theyprobably are, but I miss one must isn't it the forefront, perhaps interestingin Chili, music and politics really went hand in hand yeah, but in a verysort of organic way. It wasn't again, you know preachy and you know alienating it was moreinclusive because it wouldn't vicat what it wasn't just Victor Hari, withlots of different musicians who were performing and playing at you know andand interesting. You know because I m going off Sodie a bit, but you know music, a sort of I went hand in hand with theSalvador. Landi government rely they reached out to musicians to supportthem, which is quitting you. Imagine that happy happening year, not evenwith recaree. Everyone would get. You know slagged off for it sort of thing,but that was an interesting sort of marriage shall we say there as themusic yeah. I would like to still believethat music can still say that and straight away, my hat, I feel heavywith how the way a no spot ifying everything takes over and andeverything is so temporary and is so the twitter world of yes. No, yes, nogo. You know it's also quick, isn't e the turnover, so a protest on couldreally do well now and then tomorrow, everyone forgets about it, perhapswhich, but in my heart heart, I would like to still believe that you knowmusic, yeah and writ in the Song, which bears witness and connects with peopleand moves people, and you know galvanizes people can still exist yeah. I would like to think that, althoughI'm trying to think of someone who's doing that at the moment, Tom Morello,perhaps I love him, actually, he sort of view of words and that, but after asong doing you know, I don't know it's all so fragmented, now, isn't it andyeah and and corporate as well cat fast. The word Yeah. You know, I mean howabout you any protest, singers that you feel are relevant and Arvanian I mean, like you said. Isuppose things I would draw apart is things from my you know my mom and DadTera that stuff. That's still to me matters. You know the words of JohnnyMitchell and yeah, so many kind of help, but wonder you've mentioned Sportif inthe world of streaming and downloads, and you know it is such a shame thatthings have gone. That way and you've mentioned you too, and Evan like that.Only off the back of their own fame, maybe could still get away with, butagain would it the album might make a dent, which I don't think the singleswould do much. You kind of almost need your there. I say his name, a CireneHarry styles of the world, to try and do something you know relevant important and with meaning, but thenwould I actually leave it o? Would I believe it or would that t just? Butyou know I can imagine that if that did...

...happen, I would just roll my eyes and I,Oh God, what is he? What's he playing at yeah? You know I couldn't cope with just sortof someone attempting you know in the main stream and not being sincere, butthat would that would the closest that you know a performance I saw was stormsyet was a coston years ago yeah. I remember watching that, and I wasthinking my God. You know he's saying things that people need to hear andneed to think about, and I really admired that performance and I thoughtthat was really. It was a bit. You know like that. Punky souce of just bearingwitness and burning out there and and- and it was just him this there- youknow- I really admired that outpoint of words you know so, but maybe I'm just abit of an old person. You know I don't know dipping into that, but but yeah Ithought that was really vibrant and really yeah honest. You know yeah. Icertainly got people talking and I yeah actually thinking about that in workand being around young people that they were talking about that particularperformance from the Glastonbury line up. So I yeah- I guess I don't knowyeah just like I said, there's so many things that you can write about andprotest about, and but you know the platforms have just been so you knowdiminish in the way that you know you put something out and yeah or you lookon you tube and something is that ten million view. Is it just someoneopening a can or something it's almost like a so real world of of what you know a mean in this youknow the spectacle of and meaning yeah yeah he's like yeah. That's like a goodtitle for a Black Mirror episode. I don't know if you, but we got to have faith in it, perhapsin words and music, and you know people are still creating andYeah Oh yeah, interesting, Victor Harar, andthat you know so as fifty years ago. You think how has the world change and change so much and and his like, I said that that theposition he occupied in his society, who are those people now around theworld? Perhaps you know as artists musicians. You know you got what's hisname. Lady, a can think was a m. my memory to day. Do you know married to the Oh God, you know e cutKardash nor you was a Kanya, can a where we h treated that his wife is abillionaire. Now you know, that's a that's protest now, that's that's!That's the street and you think a billionaire and your tweeting that andanyway, yet maybe that's not the right example in a way, but but how fame andpower and money seems to it does seem to crush a bit of creativity. Should wesay maybe, okay anyway I'll leave it at that cindamine. Yes, God Otha you foryour, it yeah, that's great, quite hearing about it from from yourperspective and yeah, just to kind of hear the inspiration behind behind thewords yeah and thank you a chat to me and yeah that'llbe nice. I make to hear it no edited a bit yeah that I'm like weird rumblingsto, I think great. She is Patrick, take care, then yeah speak soon. Take it soOA, bye, bye, join me next time. As I interview with Drummer, Salian, ilesand Bass Player, Carol, Jane Norman could have been in, could have been, but it was body could have been feelingspank feeling scroll, but the shows taking up to the rug. Did it be that you cop my eye at a timewhen all hope had died of well O and an before I ever really began? Did you fatface change a ten pierer thefly or the EAINE same world e from me? One ever seen what we want. Jespersentestion appeals with a theif stop eating itself. I Levy stuffon the shape I could come. You could go. I guess now,when we in no or show and a Chin me my...

...site pro when I get lost in those forwill in it, be that I read your game o Ma my apprehension pace all the thing,an Semplon as I'm scammish, did you fabricating this Ieto Change,Tamiai us kind of the same world to be frontone, Er seein. What we want casesrepresentations every aetites fo stop eating itself to me to stop on theshale. Did you have SONANTI itself neath stuff on the shelf? Is Thetemprano getting high e looks like o Saint Puspire? I just in can everglimpse Sofo Galeso. Was It only a dream? ALWAYS IT DEAF.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (27)